Portugal and Spain Question France's Loyalties - U2 Feedback

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Old 03-11-2003, 06:54 AM   #1
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Portugal and Spain Question France's Loyalties

From UPI:

Foreign Minister Antonio Martins da Cruz told state radio that if Portugal were attacked, "it would be unlikely France and Germany would come to our rescue."


He said: "Let us suppose Portugal, proper or its archipelagos, faced a threat, who would come to our rescue? The European Commission, France, Germany?

"I think it would be NATO who would come to our rescue, in other words, it would be the U.S., no one else would defend us. For instance, during the 1996 mission in Bosnia, operations took place with the support of 20 satellites, of which only one was European," and the remainder belonged to the U.S.

"If we were attacked, is that what they would offer to defend us? How curious is this: in Bosnia, when we were called to send soldiers urgently to that region, the U.S. had C-17 and C-130 planes, and France leased ferry boats, which during the summer are employed in tourist services to Corsica.


http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...0-081013-9767r

From REUTERS:

MADRID, March 10 (Reuters) - Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, an active supporter of the United States on Iraq, on Monday linked the "material interests" of France, Russia and China in Iraq to their opposition to the use of force there.

Spain, currently on the U.N. Security Council, has joined the United States and Britain in backing a tough new resolution giving Iraq little time to disarm or face military strikes.

"We don't have any material interests in Iraq...France has material interests in Iraq. Russia has material interests in Iraq. China has material interests in Iraq. We don't have any," Aznar told Telecinco television in drawing a distinction between governments on opposing sides within the U.N. Security Council.



http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L10378933
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Old 03-11-2003, 09:13 AM   #2
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good thread,Dread
Right said Dread

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Old 03-11-2003, 12:56 PM   #3
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Oh, well, this PLEBA girl is going home. Maybe I'll come back when people stop getting France mixed up with the Devil.
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Old 03-11-2003, 01:03 PM   #4
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so it's ok to question america's loyalties and ethics, but no other country?
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Old 03-11-2003, 01:14 PM   #5
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Seems that way screamer

The US is endlessly criticized and questioned but when another government is given the same treatment, its a whole different story.

Maybe we do have a lot that can be questioned and criticized but are we the only government this applies to?
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Old 03-11-2003, 01:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Screaming Flower
so it's ok to question america's loyalties and ethics, but no other country?
I'm not sure I understand this. But there have been reports of French $$$ interests in Iraq. I'm sure some of these people have under-the-table connections with odious governments. Having said this I don't understand why some people insist in impaling every French man, woman and child because of what their government and business big shots are doing. It's just not fair. I'm not trying to be a about this, I just think French-bashing is getting out of hand.
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Old 03-11-2003, 01:24 PM   #7
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Aznar is practically primative in his outlook. He has single-handedly brought his country back a step with his domestic policies. I truly don't have any time for him.

However, he does raise some interesting issues. Far from believing that China, Russia and especially France are opposing the war out of altruistic reasons, I think that they do in fact have some interest in the future of Iraq. However, who doesn't follow their own interests? Let us call a spade a spade and proclaim why Aznar is really going on ahead with this war; because his is a Conservative government, and, like the government of the UK, is persuaded by the fact that France and Germany, being the key-players of Europe, are not really going to give Spain much time of day. The truth is, he sees an alliance with the US far more profitable than with Europe, or, as certain fossils (for lack of a better expression, but such a term warrants such a noun) in the Bush administration have proclaimed 'old' Europe.

Spain, far from being as outcast from Europe as the UK, has always been one of the poorer nations, and has at times been accused of holding Europe back (not to mention Portugal). Aznar has always been secretely anti-European, and his alliance with Blair and Bush is not in the least bit surprising.

Yes, France and Germany aren't at all noble in their opposition of war. And neither is the UK, the US or Spain in their approval of it.

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Old 03-11-2003, 01:26 PM   #8
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Screw it, I've never heard of Iraq, France, wars, political motives, U.N resolutions, or George W. Bush.
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Old 03-11-2003, 01:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76


I'm not sure I understand this. But there have been reports of French $$$ interests in Iraq. I'm sure some of these people have under-the-table connections with odious governments. Having said this I don't understand why some people insist in impaling every French man, woman and child because of what their government and business big shots are doing. It's just not fair. I'm not trying to be a about this, I just think French-bashing is getting out of hand.

But there is a BIG difference in bashing the French people and questioning the French government.

I do not in any way approve of bashing the French people, or the people of any country for that matter. I think the whole thing with pouring out French wine and selling Freedom fries is ridiculous and childish.

But dreadsox' post was about Spain and Portugal questioning the French governments loyalties and interests...it had nothing to do with bashing the French as a people.
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Old 03-11-2003, 01:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife



But there is a BIG difference in bashing the French people and questioning the French government.

I do not in any way approve of bashing the French people, or the people of any country for that matter. I think the whole thing with pouring out French wine and selling Freedom fries is ridiculous and childish.

But dreadsox' post was about Spain and Portugal questioning the French governments loyalties and interests...it had nothing to do with bashing the French as a people.
OK, I'm sorry. I lost it. I'm just too damned upset about French-bashing. Like I said, there have been reports about unsavory connections between business people in France and Iraq. It's going on in other countries, too. They found out some people in Ukraine, including some people in the government, also have connections with Iraq involving $$$. This was in the Kiev newspapers when my sister was in Kiev and L'viv. I don't doubt that this sort of thing is going on in big shot countries like France given that Ukraine is practically a Third World country these days, economically.
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Old 03-11-2003, 02:24 PM   #11
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freedom fries anyone?
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Old 03-11-2003, 02:43 PM   #12
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Originally posted by Gickies Gageeze
freedom fries anyone?
No thanks, they're fattening.
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Old 03-11-2003, 03:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
Aznar is practically primative in his outlook. He has single-handedly brought his country back a step with his domestic policies. I truly don't have any time for him.

However, he does raise some interesting issues. Far from believing that China, Russia and especially France are opposing the war out of altruistic reasons, I think that they do in fact have some interest in the future of Iraq. However, who doesn't follow their own interests? Let us call a spade a spade and proclaim why Aznar is really going on ahead with this war; because his is a Conservative government, and, like the government of the UK, is persuaded by the fact that France and Germany, being the key-players of Europe, are not really going to give Spain much time of day. The truth is, he sees an alliance with the US far more profitable than with Europe, or, as certain fossils (for lack of a better expression, but such a term warrants such a noun) in the Bush administration have proclaimed 'old' Europe.

Spain, far from being as outcast from Europe as the UK, has always been one of the poorer nations, and has at times been accused of holding Europe back (not to mention Portugal). Aznar has always been secretely anti-European, and his alliance with Blair and Bush is not in the least bit surprising.

Yes, France and Germany aren't at all noble in their opposition of war. And neither is the UK, the US or Spain in their approval of it.

Ant.
Well said. I don't for a moment pretend any one side is morally pure here. This doesn't mean that everybody also doesn't see the moral need to remove saddam, either. But all have $$$ interests in mind, in many different ways. As to France, Russia, and China's positions, yes they do all have contracts and interests in Iraq. They shouldn't have to worry about the validity of those contracts, but they do because they know they will be voided once regime change occurs. The Bush administration already has the new contracts lined up, and they go to Cheney, Bush and his father, the rest of his administration, and to his political and corporate friends. UK will have some new dealings in Iraq, and I've heard that Spain will too, but I will consider this a rumor until I can confirm it. One of the tactics being used by the Bush administration to drum up support, is the promise of a piece of the pie, so to speak. France, China, and Russia are pretty miffed about seeing their contracts essentially stolen right from under their noses while already having invested billions. So, yes, everybody has $$$ in mind. $$$ is power. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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