Pornography

[Elvis]

Then, it would be a balancing case. For all things labeled "bad" there may be situations where it is "good".

So how can you then label it as bad? From what you just said.. it would be neutral, and therefore up to personal preference.

Perhaps your personal preference is that pornography is bad for yourself, inwhich case you've become the perfect example of what I stated earlier... If you dont like something, avoid it.

 

[kobayashi]

I guess my point is that with the topic of Pornography: good or bad, the fact that the individual can choose to use or not use pornography doesn't fully answer the question. I say it is bad because it has consequences for the non-viewer.

are those consequences more or less so than the regulated, lawful presence of guns, whether they are for show, hunting, concealed, of an assault variety, etc?

point being that society is wrought with vices enjoyed by many that, as a byproduct, negatively impact on other individuals. when i first responded to this thread my question, and i don't think i've seen it answered yet, is why pornography, in your opinion, is worse than the rest of these vices? is it the 'sanctity' of sex? are you advocating some sort of prohibition?

 

[nbcrusader]

Let' discuss the issue - please don't try to stick the matter on me.

Just because you think there may be good consequences doesn't mean that it should therefore be labeled "good" or "neutral". My argument is that in the vast majority of instances, the viewing of pornography has a negative impact, at some level, on relationships.

Think of all the times pornography is viewed, and how dew the times


I've heard too many cases where a guy is viewing pornography

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Maybe some people view it as "bad" in the sense that IDEALLY sex should be about more than what it is about in porn. Yes of course some people view it as simply being about pleasure and gratification, but other people see it as being about far more than that.

I think maybe it would be more helpful for people w/ whatever issues they have that cause them to become addicted to porn/or have it adversely affect relationships to see a therapist about those - if they can't afford that, a clinical social worker or other sort of counselor. I think that would have far better consequences for others or non-viewers than porn could have.

 

[Elvis]

Let' discuss the issue - please don't try to stick the matter on me.

Just because you think there may be good consequences doesn't mean that it should therefore be labeled "good" or "neutral". My argument is that in the vast majority of instances, the viewing of pornography has a negative impact, at some level, on relationships.

Think of all the times pornography is viewed, and how dew the times


I've heard too many cases where a guy is viewing pornography

NB,

I was hardly sticking it to you... the fact is that you stated your opinion that porn is 'bad'.

You talk about "vast majority of instances, the viewing of pornography has a negative impact"... you've got some numbers on this somewhere? as well... do you have any numbers on the couples that watch it together?

I know as many women that enjoy some form of pornography as men.

 

[nbcrusader]

point being that society is wrought with vices enjoyed by many that, as a byproduct, negatively impact on other individuals. when i first responded to this thread my question, and i don't think i've seen it answered yet, is why pornography, in your opinion, is worse than the rest of these vices? is it the 'sanctity' of sex? are you advocating some sort of prohibition?

I would say a comprehensive approach to "vices" would be the subject of a different thread. This thread was to focus on pornography. I've never suggested that porngraphy is the "worst" of all vices.

Rather, I believe we grossly underestimate the impact of pornography.

 

[Elvis]

Rather, I believe we grossly underestimate the impact of pornography.

I think 'we' grossly underestimate the impact of ignorance and lack of taking responsibility for one's self.

 

[kobayashi]

I would say a comprehensive approach to "vices" would be the subject of a different thread. This thread was to focus on pornography. I've never suggested that porngraphy is the "worst" of all vices.

Rather, I believe we grossly underestimate the impact of pornography.

thanks. i didn't intend to stick it to you. i merely was sincerely interested in your response. though i can now see a lot were seemingly chasing you.

 

[nbcrusader]

You talk about "vast majority of instances, the viewing of pornography has a negative impact"... you've got some numbers on this somewhere? as well... do you have any numbers on the couples that watch it together?

I know as many women that enjoy some form of pornography as men.

Since no studies have been cited, our examples are either anecdotal or based on a reasonable thinking through of the issue.


Now, in your reasonable estimation, how often is pornography viewed openly by an individual in a relationship, with knowledge of the other person?

Pornography exploded because it can be done in secret behind our computers.

 

[nbcrusader]

I think 'we' grossly underestimate the impact of ignorance and lack of taking responsibility for one's self.

Absolutely.

 

[Elvis]

Since no studies have been cited, our examples are either anecdotal or based on a reasonable thinking through of the issue.


Now, in your reasonable estimation, how often is pornography viewed openly by an individual in a relationship, with knowledge of the other person?

Pornography exploded because it can be done in secret behind our computers.

a) Reasonable thinking.... that's hardly factual, and could very well be biased.

b) Often.

c) If you think porn only exploded in the last 10 yrs because of computers.... you've obviously never looked around your local video store, book store, or magazine rack. Porn has also been availible descretely via mail order for... MANY years... for those wanting to obtain it in 'secret'.

 

[pax]

Now, in your reasonable estimation, how often is pornography viewed openly by an individual in a relationship, with knowledge of the other person?

Probably very often. If I had to choose one, I'd rather my fiance view porn than cheat on me with someone else. Although I know it can be argued that watching porn regularly is just as bad as cheating, I'd really rather it not be a flesh-and-blood human being actually, in-person getting him off. I would venture that many, many people shrug off their significant others' porn habits if they are otherwise well-behaved in the relationship.

 

[nbcrusader]

a) Reasonable thinking.... that's hardly factual, and could very well be biased.

As is anecdotal evidence.

c) If you think porn only exploded in the last 10 yrs because of computers.... you've obviously never looked around your local video store, book store, or magazine rack. Porn has also been availible descretely via mail order for... MANY years... for those wanting to obtain it in 'secret'.

I know it has been available for decades, if not centuries.

The delivery systems is now fast and descrete.

 

[Elvis]

I know it has been available for decades, if not centuries.

The delivery systems is now fast and descrete.

and so is the news, u2 information, etc.

the accessiblity doesnt cause people to seek out the 'information'... or porn. People choose to seek it out.

 

[Liesje]

I agree with both nb and Elvis. Elvis is right - if you don't like it, don't do it. but nb is right too, but even if YOU don't like it and don't do it, that doesn't mean a parent won't or your boyfriend won't. This is why I hate porn. Like all other vices (and I don't see porn as being worse of a vice than any other), it leads to dishonesty, distrust, denial, etc. I know Elvis wants numbers and I don't have any, but what I DO know is that I've seen porn destroy WAY more relationships that it has enriched. Elvis, I think you got a point here "I think 'we' grossly underestimate the impact of ignorance and lack of taking responsibility for one's self.", but I think you really must include "lack of taking responsibility for oneself and everyone else in close relationships with that person."

 

[Elvis]

Elvis, I think you got a point here "I think 'we' grossly underestimate the impact of ignorance and lack of taking responsibility for one's self.", but I think you really must include "lack of taking responsibility for oneself and everyone else in close relationships with that person."

If people can't even take responsibility for themselves... how the hell can they take responsibility for others?

Now, here is an interesting scenario...

Would you rather your 14 yr old son learn about sex from a video... or the girl next door?

Oh... neither?

Yes... then that would mean that parents would have to take responsibility for themselves, and the need/want to educate their children.

Ignorance is not bliss.
Ignorance only breeds more ignorance.

 

[BVS]

Like all other vices (and I don't see porn as being worse of a vice than any other), it leads to dishonesty, distrust, denial, etc. I know Elvis wants numbers and I don't have any, but what I DO know is that I've seen porn destroy WAY more relationships that it has enriched.

If it's view secretly, then how do you know this? Just like anything else you really don't know it's going on most of the time until it does become a problem. A lot of "normal" people in "normal" relationships can be viewing porn together right now and you would never know it until it became an issue.

Should we label all forms of fantasy bad and hense get rid of them? People fantasize, it's part of healthy human sexuality. Be it through soap operas, romance novels, or porn why does it matter? None of these are true realities of relationships.

Porn is like anything else, it can be abused. But label it bad because of that? Then label alcohol, religion, work, internet, etc as bad also.

 

[indra]

Ignorance is not bliss.
Ignorance only breeds more ignorance.

Often quite literally breeds!

 

[indra]

Porn is like anything else, it can be abused. But label it bad because of that? Then label alcohol, religion, work, internet, etc as bad also.

You know I was just thinking something similar. You could exchange any word you listed (alcohol, religion, work, internet, and many more) for porn in virtually all arguments (be they pro, con, or neutral) and the argument would make the same sense. Anything can be abused.

I think a lot of porn is bad porn...but with a little better plot line, better actors, a bigger budget....

 

[AcrobatMan]

Looks like my this thread is quite popular

Well my point of view is more or less same as Elvis.

I am neutral on this issue. But there are lot of vices associated to pornography that needs to be eliminated ( apart from ugly women issue which is a very valid point )

I mean

1) Pornography involving non-consenting people
2) Pornography involving people < 18 years old ( consenting or non-consenting)
3) Pornographic sites in office or school or such places.
4) Leaving pornography material where a minor could access
5) Hidden pornography
6) Pretending to accidently show pornography
..
..

The list goes on but just because a thing can be mis-used doesnt mean it should be banned or something like that.

I also dont buy the argument " pornography is better than war" argument..or "if pornography is bad, internet is also bad"..and
analogies which are not simply correct.

Analogy is a tool which is usually misused more so on this FORUM

 

[A_Wanderer]

As an admin at lan parties I have had to deal with this quite a bit.

The general rule of thumb I use>

Softcore Porn - Fine knock yourself out

Hardcore Porn - Go on you dirty fecker

Anything Illegal - You see this brick, look at what it does to your box!

 

[Angela Harlem]

1) Pornography involving non-consenting people
2) Pornography involving people < 18 years old ( consenting or non-consenting)
3) Pornographic sites in office or school or such places.
4) Leaving pornography material where a minor could access
5) Hidden pornography
6) Pretending to accidently show pornography

These for all intents and purposes are criminal acts. It's somewhat of a seperate issue. Someone can drink drive and kill someone on the roads and alcohol is the problem, but it is still manslaughter and a criminal offence. People can argue the virtues for example of porn where there are children in blue movies, but it isn't JUST porn. It is a criminal act. The issue then becomes much bigger and should be wrong by everyone's standards.

Like all the comparisons that have been listed throughout this thread each in its own way in moderate and safe use is probably fine. But when porn starts affecting relationships it is bad. When it is filmed and all parties aren't aware or old enough, it is a crime. When alcohol is consumed sensibly and moderately, it is no drama. When it becomes such a habit that it destroys families it is morally and so on arguable. When it results in car accidents, again it is a crime and the initial problem becomes something more.

So i guess what I think is trhat in and of itself it is and shouldnt be a big deal. When it changes to something else, it is a problem and a real one. Common sense says this.

*this has been edited, but to fix a sentence which was garbled.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Dare I ask what an admin at an 'Ian' party is?

 

[A_Wanderer]

Local Area Network Party. Admin duties entail keeping the network and power running as well as the competitions, checkins, food, drink and about 1000 other little things that can go wrong very easily.

Basically its a 2 day (usually) event where people bring their computers and play games against eachother for prizes. Its a bit of fun and there is trivia etc. But there is also a hell of a lot of filesharing (Gigabit ethernet is very, very, very good for this - admin privalage). And as one might imagine porn enters the filesharing and things can get a little interesting.

 

[Angela Harlem]

I thought that said Ian as in...Ian Roberts, or who's another famous Ian....I know what a LAN party is though lol.

 

[A_Wanderer]

lol, an ian party that involves pr0n in some way - now that would be funny and somewhat scary at the same time.