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Old 09-22-2004, 03:00 PM   #31
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Consenting adults making the porn...fine and dandy.
Adults watching the porn...fine and dandy.
Juveniles...can wait until they become adults (and then see above).

When I was a little kid my favorite song was by Tom Lehrer, a comeic/satirical songwriter. I used to sing it (and my other favorite Lehrer song The Vatican Rag -- yes I was a very non-pc kid!) at the top of my lungs. Must have made my mom so proud! It was called Smut and it was sung to a march-type music ("people seem to be marching for their causes these days, I have a have here a march for mine."

Quote:
Smut!
Give me smut and nothing but!
A dirty novel I can't shut
If it's uncut
and unsubt-le.

I've never quibbled
If it was ribald.
I would devour
Where others merely nibbled.
As the judge remarked the day that he acquitted my Aunt Hortense,
"To be smut
It must be ut-
Terly without redeeming social importance."

Por-
Nographic pictures I adore.
Indecent magazines galore,
I like them more
If they're hard core.

Bring on the obscene movies, murals, postcards, neckties, samplers, stained
glass windows, tattoos, anything!
More, more, I'm still not satisfied!

Stories of tortures
Used by debauchers
Lurid, licentious and vile,
Make me smile.
Novels that pander
To my taste for candor
Give me a pleasure sublime.
Let's face it I love slime!

Old books can be indecent books,
Though recent books are bolder.
For filth, I'm glad to say,
Is in the mind of the beholder.
When correctly viewed,
Everything is lewd.
I could tell you things about Peter Pan
And the Wizard of Oz - there's a dirty old man!

I thrill
To any book like Fanny Hill,
And I suppose I always will
If it is swill
And really fil-thy.

Who needs a hobby like tennis or philately?
I've got a hobby: rereading Lady Chatterley.
But now they're trying to take it all away from us unless
We take a stand, and hand in hand we fight for freedom of the press.
In other words: Smut! I love it.
Ah, the adventures of a slut.
Oh, I'm a market they can't glut.
I don't know what
Compares with smut.
Hip, hip, hooray!
Let's hear it for the Supreme Court!
Don't let them take it away!
I still love that whole album. Hilarious songs.



Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I'll stick by my "destructive nature" comment.

As for keeping my comments relative to my relationship, that is not the subject of this thread. I don't do relativism.

You may say you are fine with pornography, but you may not realize its impact today, tomorrow or five years from now. But it will have an impact. You can't simply erase it away.
"I don't do relativism."

So, you want to control other people?
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Old 09-22-2004, 03:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
You may say you are fine with McDonald's fast food, but you may not realize its impact today, tomorrow or five years from now. But it will have an impact. You can't simply erase it away.


Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus

For some reason liberal europeans tend to be more afraid of violence, conservative americans are afraid of porn.
So true.

Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora

I say this in absolute honesty: I do not "get" pornography. I've looked at dirty movies and magazines, even ones featuring good-looking men, and I just don't get turned on, I guess.

I know I'm the freak here
Nah, you're just a normal woman. Speaking verrry generally, women tend to be turned on when there's an emotional connection; men are more turned on by visuals.
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Old 09-22-2004, 03:38 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra
So, you want to control other people?
No. I'm not sure why my statement would prompt what some would call a hostile question.

But it makes no sense to discuss your opinions if they only apply to you.


P.S. Tom Lehrer


Vatican Rag, The Elements, New Math...... very intelligent humor
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Old 09-22-2004, 03:38 PM   #34
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Pornography like any other entertainment has it's disclaimers. I think most people can view people engaging in sex with the intent to arouse and have no problem. (Some it may arouse others it won't.) But just like video games, violent movies, cartoons, soap operas, John Edward's "Crossing Over" or any other entertainment certain individuals will have issues with the lines of reality.

Now as far as the people in the industry, I think the same thing can be said. Some are being exploited and the lines of consent maybe blurred, others just found a way to make money. Entertainers in general have these issues.

So I say it has issues like any other form of entertainment out there.
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Old 09-22-2004, 03:52 PM   #35
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Good points BVS. I think that about sums it up for me.
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Old 09-22-2004, 04:04 PM   #36
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this is a touchy subject for me. first off, let me state this: i cannot speak for everyone, i can only give my own humble opinion.

porn makes my skin crawl. and, no, it has nothing to do with being a prude or uptight about sex. i don't get why so many people (the vast majority being men) are hung up on porn, and i really cannot imagine how the people in the industry do what they do. it's not just exploitation of women, it's exploitation of humanity. porn is rarely reflective of reality, and i do believe that prolonged exposure to porn warps people's sense of sexuality.

i have a very strong opinion on this because i spent two years of my life in a relationship with someone who was addicted to porn--he was addicted to the point that he had little to no interest in sexual contact with me. of course, he blamed it all on me--i was a prude, i was the abnormal one... i don't have words to describe the damage that i let myself endure in that relationship. overall, his addiction to porn was part of an all-encompassing self-destructiveness. i know there are many more like him out there.
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Old 09-22-2004, 04:14 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Pornography like any other entertainment has it's disclaimers. I think most people can view people engaging in sex with the intent to arouse and have no problem. (Some it may arouse others it won't.) But just like video games, violent movies, cartoons, soap operas, John Edward's "Crossing Over" or any other entertainment certain individuals will have issues with the lines of reality.

Now as far as the people in the industry, I think the same thing can be said. Some are being exploited and the lines of consent maybe blurred, others just found a way to make money. Entertainers in general have these issues.

So I say it has issues like any other form of entertainment out there.
Excellent points, but the question remains: is pornography good or bad?

Or are the problems of pornography marginalized because there are problems with other forms of entertainment?
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Old 09-22-2004, 04:18 PM   #38
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Pornography has good points and bad points, some studies show that doing certain deeds is good for wellbeing but doing said acts in excess becomes bad. It's peoples own choice and I don't think it is anybodys right to determine what can and cannot be done by other people in their own time (unless it was illegal).
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Old 09-22-2004, 04:47 PM   #39
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"TYPICALLY":

Men ---> porn

Women ----> romance novels

Both of these can be very far from reality and can have a "destructive effect" on any relationship.

It's up to the individual (or couple) whether it is "good" or "bad".
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Old 09-22-2004, 04:52 PM   #40
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I would be curious to know how many of you are married. You might be surprised at the number of us old farts who occasionally watch porn.
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Old 09-22-2004, 04:53 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by whitehead
It's up to the individual (or couple) whether it is "good" or "bad".
Is it?

Read dandy's post.

The actions of one individual can affect others. We do not live in a vacuum.



And before you sympathize and then dismiss her experience as unique, I would suggest that subtler forms of harmful influence occur in a greater number of relationships.
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Old 09-22-2004, 04:58 PM   #42
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Anything can be "bad" when it's abused. Sometimes it's the abuse that makes it bad. Is alcohol good or bad?
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Old 09-22-2004, 05:15 PM   #43
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How do you all feel about sites like www.suicidegirls.com and www.thatstrangegirl.com, where the girls (and in fact, there are boys also on the latter site) are far from helpless and exploited, and are doing stuff like this as an expression of their sexuality/identity?
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Old 09-22-2004, 05:22 PM   #44
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i suppose it makes sense to analogize pornography with a recreational drug, like alcohol. in some cases, yeah, people do watch a little porn and it's no big deal. other people have addictive personalities and it spirals out of control. where exactly the line between recreational user and addict lies is not at all clear.

i should clarify that i'm not concerned about run of the mill sexuality in the media. (i have issues with the marketing of sex to sell literally everything from jeans to gum to kraft dinner, but that's a slightly different context. or not. i'll have to give that more thought.) the soft core stuff doesn't so much trouble me. it's the hardcore raunchy stuff. i'll skip the details, but you know what i mean.

to answer your question, nb, i can't say pornography is good. i also can't say it's always bad. i don't think it adds any value to society, but that's just my opinion. maybe it's neutral and only becomes positive or negative depending on the context in which it's being viewed.
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Old 09-22-2004, 07:23 PM   #45
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I think dandy's last post pretty much fits what I tend to feel about porn. Though undoubtedly some porn stars are unfairly exploited, others enter the industry with a full awareness of and enthusiasm for the challenges that the occupation involves. I know people who indulge in porn from time to time and they are still decent, ethical people with solid grips on reality.

That said, for some people it can be just as harmful as alcohol or drugs can be for others. I don't know. I find it very difficult to deny people the right to participate in or enjoy pornography wholesale, even though I myself have little enthusiasm for it.
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