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Old 04-04-2003, 12:30 AM   #1
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Pope condemns Iraq war and gay rights...

Pope Warns That War Could Bring 'Religious Catastrophe'

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Mar29.html

Reuters
Sunday, March 30, 2003

VATICAN CITY, March 29 -- Pope John Paul II said today he hoped that the human tragedy of the war in Iraq would not set Christians and Muslims against each other and spark "a religious catastrophe."

"War must never be allowed to divide world religions," he told visiting Roman Catholic bishops from Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country. The pope said good inter-religious relations were important "at this moment of heightened tension in the entire world community."

"Let us not permit a human tragedy to become a religious catastrophe," he said.

The pope is opposed to the war in Iraq and led a Vatican diplomatic campaign to avert it. The Iraq conflict has put the Vatican at odds with the Bush administration because the pope has refused to bless the conflict as a "just war."

© 2003 The Washington Post Company


Pope Condemns Gay Rights March

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/825852.stm

Pope John Paul has delivered a powerful condemnation of the gay rights march held in Rome on Saturday, describing it as an offence to Christian values.

Addressing thousands of pilgrims in St Peter's Square, he said the Roman Catholic Church could not keep quiet about the truth. He said it regarded homosexual acts to be against natural law.

I must express sadness for ...the offence to Christian values of a city that is so dear to the heart of Catholics

Correspondents say his remarks will anger gay activists. They were hoping the Gay Pride march, attended by an estimated 70,000 people, would help improve relations with the Church.

But before the march - held as part of World Pride Week - the Vatican tried to get it banned.

Applause

The Pope re-affirmed the Church's position that it would not compromise in its opposition to homosexuality.

"In the name of the Church of Rome, I must express sadness for the affront to the great jubilee of the year 2000 and the offence to Christian values of a city that is so dear to the heart of Catholics of the whole world," he said.

He went on to deliver a catechism lesson to the crowd, stressing the Church's belief that homosexual acts are against nature and are therefore intrinsically evil.

During his address, the Pope read from an entry on homosexuality in the Catholic Church's catechism, which calls it "objectively disordered".

Many in the crowd applauded his words.

At the same time, the Pope acknowledged that a considerable number of people had deeply rooted homosexual tendencies, and said they should be treated with respect, compassion and delicacy.

All types of unjust discrimination towards such people must be avoided, he added.

Saturday's march from the Coliseum and the Circus Maximus - two of Rome's most famous ancient sites - was one of the biggest to take place in Rome for decades.

Jubilant

The mood was jubilant, as gays and their supporters from around the world joined in tooting whistles and carrying banners proclaiming gay pride.

Some marchers carried placards denouncing the Catholic Church.


"1943: The Vatican says nothing about the deportation of Gays and Jews," one placard read. "2000: The Vatican speaks out against Gay Pride."

Among the marchers was a soberly dressed provincial priest marching in solidarity.

"I'm not the Pope, but I'm here!" the Reverend Vitaliano Della Sala said.

Many families joined in the parade - the first occasion on which gay rights has been openly presented to Italians as a legitimate human rights issue.

Prominent Italian left-wing and radical politicians were also there for the event, which took place amid heavy police security after threats by neo-Fascists to disrupt the proceedings.

Criticism

The Vatican had earlier criticised the Italian government and the Rome city authorities for allowing the parade.

Italy's prime minister Guiliano Amato ordered the country's minister for equal rights to cancel her ministry's official sponsorship of World Pride.

World Pride Week has dramatically brought gay rights issues out of the closet in Italy.

Activist Imma Battaglia, who led the battle for the parade permit, said: "No one will be able to stop us ever again. We'll continue the fight for freedom, equality and respect."
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Old 04-04-2003, 12:57 AM   #2
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Old 04-04-2003, 04:37 AM   #3
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He's right on the first point and wrong on the second, IMO.

I don't understand why you've posted an article from almost three years ago though. It's almost like an attempt to discredit the Pope's anti-war stance by pointing out that he still takes a reactionary position on gay rights. Curious.
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Old 04-04-2003, 05:24 AM   #4
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aah that's why there was no date on the second posting, thanks Fizzie
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Old 04-04-2003, 07:25 AM   #5
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It would be interesting if it changes the mind of any pro-war Christian that the Pope is against the war.

What is more important? Following the leader of the Christians or following the leader of the free world?

Following the Pope or the U.S. government?

If I wouldn´t be a good Christian (and therefore think everyone is entitled to his own opinion about how much religion is part of daily life, plus belief is not politics and those two things have to stay separated), I would go as far as saying: "You´re either with us, or against us".
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Old 04-04-2003, 09:02 AM   #6
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http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle....toryID=2486472

Italian Gays Blast Vatican's New Sex Glossary
Tue April 1, 2003 09:12 AM ET
By Philip Pullella

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - A controversial new Vatican glossary of sexual terms says homosexuals are not normal and that countries which allow gay marriages are inhabited by people with "profoundly disordered minds."

Italy's gay community immediately condemned the glossary of nearly 900 pages, which hit the bookstores on Monday, as part of what they called a new anti-homosexual crusade.

The glossary, prepared by the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family, covers themes such as sexuality, condoms, abortion, birth control and genetic manipulation.

A section on "Homosexuality and Homophobia" says homosexuality stems from an "unresolved psychological conflict."

It says that those who want to give homosexuals the same legal rights in society "deny a psychological problem which makes homosexuality against the social fabric."

The glossary says that heterosexuals in society have been made to feel guilty for even questioning homosexuality.

"Every criticism, every reflection on homosexuality is seen almost as blasphemy, compared to a crime: the crime of homophobia," it said.

Although the stand against homosexuality and gay marriages was not new, observers found the tone more severe.

Italy's gay community was outraged by the glossary, called "Lexicon On Ambiguous and Colloquial Terms about Family Life and Ethical Questions."

"The Vatican has gone from invective to insults," said Franco Grillini, an MP for the largest opposition party, the Democrats of the Left.

Grillini, honorary chairman of Arcigay, Italy's largest gay rights group, told Reuters he believed the Roman Catholic Church in Italy was embarking on "a new anti-gay crusade" which found comfort in Italy's center-right government.

"The Vatican is truly obsessed. There is not a day that goes by that a cardinal or somebody in the hierarchy does not bash gays. They say things that are total lies, falsehoods," he said.

Another section of the glossary says homosexuals have "not stopped proclaiming, often in a disproportionate if not aggressive way, their 'normality.'"

The Lexicon, which also condemned the use of condoms for safe sex, called this "an exercise in self-justification."

It said the fact that leaders of some countries favor gay marriages "shows a profound disorder in the minds of these countries."

The Lexicon was the brainchild of Colombian Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, one of the Vatican's hierarchy's most conservative members.

Grillini said the Catholic Church was part of the problem.

"It is precisely because of the Catholic Church's homophobia that homosexuals have difficulties. If the Catholic Church would just stop its campaign of hate against gays, a good part of the problems of gays would be resolved," the gay MP said.
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Old 04-04-2003, 09:06 AM   #7
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I wasn't disputing that the Pope has reactionary views on homosexuality - there's no need to find an up-to-date article on that subject to prove it.

I was questioning why you needed to post an article about his views on homosexuality next to an article about his views on war. Was it an attempt to discredit his anti-war comments by proving that he has reactionary views on other subjects?
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Old 04-04-2003, 09:18 AM   #8
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just wondered if maybe the Pope wouldn't mind a war on gays? but then I remembered how compassionate his Holiness is for all human life!
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Old 04-04-2003, 12:43 PM   #9
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So it's what FizzingWhizzbees expected, you try to discredit the pope because you don't like that he says that the current US war is unjust?
*polemic on*
Maybe you can do the same like your only big ally in this war did a few hundred years ago, create a new anglicanic church and declare the U.S. president as the head of your church?
*polemic off*

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Old 04-04-2003, 12:58 PM   #10
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I'm not sure why this thread started either. Maybe it was an attempt to raise the issue of what authority the Pope had in an individual's life? Or how does the Pope's statements regarding this war validate an individual's position on the war?

These are probably things best left to the personal beliefs of Catholics rather than the subject of debate....
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Old 04-04-2003, 01:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I'm not sure why this thread started either. Maybe it was an attempt to raise the issue of what authority the Pope had in an individual's life? Or how does the Pope's statements regarding this war validate an individual's position on the war?

These are probably things best left to the personal beliefs of Catholics rather than the subject of debate....

This stuff is what's called "non-binding" beliefs for Catholics. We don't have to agree with the pope's political opinions. If Joe Q. U.S. Catholic wants to support the war, that's OK. I personally don't feel like "oh, it's either the pope or the president that I have to agree with". This isn't necessary. Many U.S. Catholics opposed the invasion of Iraq but I know at least one priest who supported it. This is not a problem. All of the priests I know make their political decisions independently like the rest of us.
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Old 04-04-2003, 02:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
This stuff is what's called "non-binding" beliefs for Catholics. We don't have to agree with the pope's political opinions. If Joe Q. U.S. Catholic wants to support the war, that's OK. I personally don't feel like "oh, it's either the pope or the president that I have to agree with". This isn't necessary.
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Old 04-04-2003, 03:15 PM   #13
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*changes name to Joe Q. U.S. Catholic

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Old 04-04-2003, 03:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
This stuff is what's called "non-binding" beliefs for Catholics.
Out of curiosity, how do you distinguish between binding and non-binding Papal statements?

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Old 04-04-2003, 03:25 PM   #15
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So, what is thread about now? The Popes opinion on war or on homosexuality? Or is it like "Hey you´re liberal so you should be against that and for that"?

Just wondering.
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