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Old 02-07-2002, 09:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees:
I'm just posting this because you commented that you were trying to justify the death penalty, and I wanted to say that actually the costs of keeping someone incarcarated for life are less than the cost of executing someone, so it isn't really a justification.

If you don't think the death penalty is right then why try to justify it? I'm not saying this as a criticism, I'm just curious about why you feel like this.

Could I perhaps ask for some financial numbers here, since youre telling me its cheaper to pay for food, maintenence, medical needs for a patience over the course of 25-50 years then it is to take one round of live ammunition and execute them.

Based on society, the fact that people dont give a rats ass about the common man, and that everything is about efficiency, thats why I feel this way. I think its wrong to take away someones life, noone has the right to do that, but from a political standpoint if it is in the best intrest of the government to save taxpayer dollars, then thats a viable path for them to take.

I agree with your statement about no country sanctioning execution of its citizens can call itself civilized. Throughout history though, countrys have been on the cutting edge, been highest power in the world, been "civilized" for the time, and still executed people. You could banish them, lock them up and throw away the key and forget they exist, secretly kidnap them and take them off somewhere and kill them where noone will ever see... But its always been done, and as long as people are people, then it probably will be done somewhere. Im not granting that as an excuse, but I am saying that whether we like it or not its going to happen. If the people of the nation dont like the way the government is dealing with it, then some radical is going to go and kill the person who everyone felt should have been executed anyway. May as well do it in a professional manner in a controlled environment rather than have a messy and brutal attack on the streets or in an apartment building where children and innocents may be forced to veiw it...

I still hate the fact that people take the lives of others, but it happens, it needs to be controlled, one way or another. I by no means think I cleared anything up with what Ive said, probably just raised more questions, Ill try again perhaps to make myself more coherant if its necessary.
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Old 02-07-2002, 11:36 PM   #17
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AGAINST....but I admit that the recent Timothy McVeigh trial in my state had me wavering for a bit. I actually am a member of OCADP...Oklahoma Coalition against the Death Penalty...and many of my fellow members protested during that trial. I was actually studying abroad last year and thus never had to face that issue. I do believe that it is an unfair practice that produces a final, irreversible effect on what is sometimes an innocent human being. I have attended death penalty trial in the past and the injustice I have seen makes me want to place a moratorium on this practice, but I admit to being undecided about my feeling regarding the McVeigh hearings....
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Old 02-08-2002, 03:24 AM   #18
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Against. I tend to go along the "two wrongs dont make a right" philosophy with this...

But I will add that I am not strongly against it, just in belief. When I let my emotions get the best of me, I fool myself into thinking I am for it.
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Old 02-08-2002, 03:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
For, with the qualification that it is probably like the a standing army, firearms, and the government itself: a necessary evil.
Dittos. Were we separated at birth or something?
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Old 02-08-2002, 03:59 AM   #20
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Totally for it...Thanks.
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Old 02-08-2002, 05:21 AM   #21
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Against. I'm not against death penalty as an idea, I just think that it is better that a thousand deserving criminals stay unexecuted rather than one innocent person be executed by mistake.
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Old 02-08-2002, 05:38 AM   #22
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Against - same as Saracene
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Old 02-08-2002, 05:58 AM   #23
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How you deal with the outcast of society tells your more about the society than anything else...

Thanks Lord, I'm living in a part of the word where death penalty was abolished decades ago...and may the Lord show mercy on those who believe death penalty is one of the best way to solve problems. It never has and it never will...And no, in this case I've no respect for those, who think otherwise. It's too serious a matter. So flame me, kill me (?), whatever...

So you guessed it: Very much against...

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Old 02-08-2002, 11:08 AM   #24
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Ideally, I'm for it.
Practically, I'm against it.
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Old 02-08-2002, 11:16 AM   #25
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I'd rather use torture as a justice method
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Old 02-08-2002, 12:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peaseblossom:
Dittos. Were we separated at birth or something?

Uhh.. Triple Dittos.. Is that fitting?.. Mos Def.

'No Diggity' for those of you still stuck in 1996...

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Old 02-08-2002, 12:29 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~:

Could I perhaps ask for some financial numbers here, since youre telling me its cheaper to pay for food, maintenence, medical needs for a patience over the course of 25-50 years then it is to take one round of live ammunition and execute them.
The main reason it costs more is because of the additional costs of trying someone if the prosecutor is seeking the death penalty. Also, there are additional costs when an individual appeals against a death sentence, and obviously it would be completely wrong to deprive someone of a fair trial or appeal in order to save money.

This is part of an article taken from the ACLU's website:

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT COSTS MORE THAN INCARCERATION
It is sometimes suggested that abolishing capital punishment is unfair to the taxpayer, on the assumption that life imprisonment is more expensive than execution. If one takes into account all the relevant costs, however, just the reverse is true. "The death penalty is not now, nor has it ever been, a more economical alternative to life imprisonment."56 A murder trial normally takes much longer when the death penalty is at issue than when it is not. Litigation costs – including the time of judges, prosecutors, public defenders, and court reporters, and the high costs of briefs – are mostly borne by the taxpayer. A 1982 study showed that were the death penalty to be reintroduced in New York, the cost of the capital trial alone would be more than double the cost of a life term in prison.57

In Maryland, a comparison of capital trial costs with and without the death penalty for the years 1979-1984 concluded that a death penalty case costs "approximately 42 percent more than a case resulting in a non-death sentence."58 In 1988 and 1989 the Kansas legislature voted against reinstating the death penalty after it was informed that reintroduction would involve a first-year cost of "more than $11 million."59 Florida, with one of the nation's most populous death rows, has estimated that the true cost of each execution is approximately $3.2 million, or approximately six times the cost of a life-imprisonment sentence."60

A 1993 study of the costs of North Carolina's capital punishment system revealed that litigating a murder case from start to finish adds an extra $163,000 to what it would cost the state to keep the convicted offender in prison for 20 years. The extra cost goes up to $216,000 per case when all first-degree murder trials and their appeals are considered, many of which do not end with a death sentence and an execution.61

From one end of the country to the other public officials decry the additional cost of capital cases even when they support the death penalty system. "Wherever the death penalty is in place, it siphons off resources which could be going to the front line in the war against crime…. Politicians could address this crisis, but, for the most part they either endorse executions or remain silent."62 The only way to make the death penalty more "cost effective" than imprisonment is to weaken due process and curtail appellate review, which are the defendant's (and society's) only protection against the most aberrant miscarriages of justice. Any savings in dollars would, of course, be at the cost of justice: In nearly half of the death-penalty cases given review under federal habeas corpus provisions, the murder conviction or death sentence was overturned.63

In 1996, in response to public clamor for accelerating executions, Congress imposed severe restrictions on access to federal habeas corpus64 and also ended all funding of the regional death penalty "resource centers" charged with providing counsel on appeal in the federal courts.65 These restrictions virtually guarantee that the number and variety of wrongful murder convictions and death sentences will increase. The savings in time and money will prove to be illusory.

Youn can find the rest of the article and the references at this site: http://www.aclu.org/library/case_against_death.html

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Old 02-08-2002, 01:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees:
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT COSTS MORE THAN INCARCERATION
Fair enough.
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Old 02-08-2002, 01:58 PM   #29
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Thanks Fizzy.

I only took into account the result, rather than the process to get there -> laywers are paid too much imho, but I suppose thats where the extra costs come in, since trials are quite pricey. The more you know. Once again beauracratic red tape has screwed me over lol
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Old 02-08-2002, 05:18 PM   #30
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Against

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