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Old 01-19-2005, 07:08 AM   #31
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Sigh, thanks, I thought you were going to yell at me

Okay I'm done now!
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Old 01-19-2005, 07:20 AM   #32
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Sigh, thanks, I thought you were going to yell at me

Okay I'm done now!
No I figured it's OK if we agree on a few things.
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Old 01-19-2005, 08:32 AM   #33
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If you don't mind, I'd like to agree as well.
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:34 AM   #34
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Thanks guys

One more thing that irritates me, as a woman, is when women are patronized in PC ways. It bugs me that NO woman singer or musician can be discussed on VH-1 without mentioning 'she's a groundbreaker in a man's world!' and shit like that. Why can't you just discuss her career and life like you would any guy? I'm sure she became a rock star because she wanted to, just like a guy would, and not to make any political statement about a 'man's world.' I have even heard Chrissie Hynde say this, that her career has nothing to do with feminism at all, she just wanted to play guitar and sing! To me, constantly bringing up someone's race or sex is insulting and more patronizing and condescending than doing them any kind of favor. Just treat everyone like PEOPLE and stop keeping track of 'what kind' they are. That's the best thing we can all do!
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:52 AM   #35
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I tend to agree with you on this one. If it were a "man's world", it women wouldn't be considered citizens, and would be denied the right to vote.
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:45 PM   #36
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You will find that everyone has an axe to grind, as such, and everyone has a particularly weak spot. Even the coolest cat has something he (or she) is sensitive about, some are more sensitive than others. Clearly.


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Old 01-19-2005, 03:27 PM   #37
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I agree U2Kitten. Chrissie Hynde's career choice has nothing to do with politics. She wanted to sing and play guitar in a band, that's what she ended up doing, plain and simple. It's that way with other talented people. Am I an artist because I'm a woman? No. I'm an artist because I wanted to draw and paint. This has nothing to do with politics. It has everything to do with just being human.
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Old 01-19-2005, 03:28 PM   #38
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If that's the case, I suppose everyone is capable of being pretty annoying. Not that I'm denying it at all.
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Old 01-19-2005, 03:30 PM   #39
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Old 01-19-2005, 04:43 PM   #40
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Originally posted by U2Kitten
One more thing that irritates me, as a woman, is when women are patronized in PC ways. It bugs me that NO woman singer or musician can be discussed on VH-1 without mentioning 'she's a groundbreaker in a man's world!' and shit like that. Why can't you just discuss her career and life like you would any guy? I'm sure she became a rock star because she wanted to, just like a guy would, and not to make any political statement about a 'man's world.' I have even heard Chrissie Hynde say this, that her career has nothing to do with feminism at all, she just wanted to play guitar and sing! To me, constantly bringing up someone's race or sex is insulting and more patronizing and condescending than doing them any kind of favor. Just treat everyone like PEOPLE and stop keeping track of 'what kind' they are. That's the best thing we can all do!
Don't forget those blasted "Women in Rock" issues music magazines bring up from time to time,

For all of their crowing about "women's achievements", I think it's rather sad that women still should be treated as some sort of an exotic sideshow. One of these had Britney on the cover, for crying out loud.
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Old 01-19-2005, 04:52 PM   #41
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Don't forget those blasted "Women in Rock" issues music magazines bring up from time to time,

For all of their crowing about "women's achievements", I think it's rather sad that women still should be treated as some sort of an exotic sideshow. One of these had Britney on the cover, for crying out loud.
I hate this .
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Old 01-20-2005, 12:53 PM   #42
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Maybe if women and minorities stopped asking to be treated special then they would be treated the same as everyone else. I'm not saying all women and minorities are attention hogs or anything, but people need to stop treating themselves like they're so special (remember the first black woman to get an academy award..?). If everyone's to be equal then... we need to treat everyone equally!!!
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Old 01-20-2005, 12:57 PM   #43
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(remember the first black woman to get an academy award..?).
yeah,
i knew it was a mistake to give it to her
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Old 01-20-2005, 02:01 PM   #44
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Maybe if women and minorities stopped asking to be treated special then they would be treated the same as everyone else. I'm not saying all women and minorities are attention hogs or anything, but people need to stop treating themselves like they're so special (remember the first black woman to get an academy award..?). If everyone's to be equal then... we need to treat everyone equally!!!

you're right, people should be treated equally, but people are not treated equally. every day of my life i am told in some small way -- weather spoken or unspoken, communicated by a person or through an advertisement -- that there's something wrong with me. i'm fine with being different, but there is an automatic worth, if you will, assigned to the dominant culture. when you turn on the TV -- take the WB -- and all you see are rich white teens hurting each other's feelings, it's hard not to feel slightly on the outs if you are not rich and white and beautiful (and straight).

but, social messages aside, are women and minorities asking to be treated specially? the answer is probably yes and no. i think we're kidding ourselves if we think that history has no role with the way that race often determines socio-economic status in the US. i think we're kidding ourselves if we don't think that there are virtually no roles for women that don't involve the subordinate role of "wife" "mother" "girlfriend" or "prostitute with a heart of god." and it's even worse for women of color -- just how many roles do you see for Asian-American women out there? due to a lack of visible role models, it is very easy to write yourself out of a possible career path/dream because it doesn't seem possible for people like you. white people are rarely, if ever, made to feel this way.

two quotes come to mind:

Margaret Cho: "growing up, i wanted to be an actress, but there were virtually no asian women on TV; so i grew up thinking, 'one day, if i work really hard, i can be an extra on M*A*S*H!'"

indian friend of mine: "i loved The English Patient!!! best movie ever!!! not only was there an Indian character, but he got to actually have sex!!!!!! that never happens in movies!!!!"


it's not that women and minorities think they are special, but the are made aware of just how different they are every day. not a day goes by (... freudian writing slip ... i just typed "not a gay goes by" ... LOL at myself ...) that i'm not constantly aware of just how i'm different, and i have the luxury of being able to "pass." not so if you are a person of color.

ideally, recognizing accomplishments of people of color, or women, should be a means to an end. there can only be one "first african-american woman to win the Best Actress Oscar." after that, it's been done, the barrier has been broken, and we're getting used to it. will anyone notice that it's very likely that we will have 2 African American best male Oscar nominees this year (Jamie Foxx and Don Cheadle)? no, not really. it might be noticed, and commented upon, but it isn't a big deal anymore.
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Old 01-20-2005, 02:02 PM   #45
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yeah,
i knew it was a mistake to give it to her

actually, i had seen all the performances in all those movies, and i would have given her the Oscar. black or not, hers was the best performance, imho.
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