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Old 01-18-2005, 05:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


My gay friends use this expression all the time. When I ask them about it they say, "Well, it means bad gay, like you know, stereotypical bad-taste gay." I've even heard the guys on Queer Eye say it. As they're rummaging through someone's awful stuff they'll pick up something really ugly and go, "that's so gay." I find that this expression is generally more offensive to gays' well-meaning and protective straight friends than it is to gays, especially gays who have been out for a long time. Still, I tiptoe around the expression myself because it may be a matter of who says it and how they say it.

and Chris rock says the N word.

It is easy for me.

Nobody that looks like Chris Rock ever burned a cross on a black family’s lawn

or

Lynched a black person.


If a bunch of "jocks" use gay as a slur it is different than your gay friends using it.

Again, I don't think they would crucify Matt Shepherd on a barbed wire fence.
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Old 01-18-2005, 05:50 PM   #17
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Yes, I agree with both of you, which is why I said it depends on who says it and how it is said, but I find that some people cannot hear it at all from anyone, even affectionately, without being offended and that's when it is too PC.
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Old 01-18-2005, 07:54 PM   #18
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Re: Re: Re: Political correctness: Oversensitive people are really annoying.

Quote:
Originally posted by indra


Hahaha!

What I notice is that many of the people bitching about how oversensitive others are tend to be just as touchy when it comes to their triggers. Just read through a few posts....
When did I ever say "I believe so and so should be banned because of its intolerance of christian conservatives!!!"? Never. Just because I recognize when someone's giving people like me a bad rap doesn't mean I run in the streets and demand that it stops. I don't. The most I do is get a little angry.

I don't really care if oversensitive people get upset, just when they start imposing that on everyone else. It's fine with me if christian conservatives get a bad rap in the mainstream (and we do), but do you'll never hear me asking them to take the stuff people find enjoyment in away, I just won't participate or contribute to it.
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Old 01-18-2005, 08:27 PM   #19
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Political correctness: Oversensitive people are really annoying.

Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780


When did I ever say "I believe so and so should be banned because of its intolerance of christian conservatives!!!"? Never. Just because I recognize when someone's giving people like me a bad rap doesn't mean I run in the streets and demand that it stops. I don't. The most I do is get a little angry.

I don't really care if oversensitive people get upset, just when they start imposing that on everyone else. It's fine with me if christian conservatives get a bad rap in the mainstream (and we do), but do you'll never hear me asking them to take the stuff people find enjoyment in away, I just won't participate or contribute to it.
Huh? You quote me and then take about someone demanding a poster be banned? I don't see the link. I've never asked (on any board) for anyone to be banned. I merely noted that many people who complain about other's oversensitivity tend to be oversensitive themselves when an issue dear to them is brought up and discussed. Not sure what that has to do with banning....
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Old 01-18-2005, 08:53 PM   #20
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When I said "so and so being banned" I didn't mean someone getting banned from the boards I just meant anything politically incorrect being banned (e.g. a show, book, music, etc.).
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Old 01-18-2005, 10:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780
When I said "so and so being banned" I didn't mean someone getting banned from the boards I just meant anything politically incorrect being banned (e.g. a show, book, music, etc.).
I don't condone banning books, or art shows, or music, or anything else. Hell, I rather enjoy art (including literature, music, theatre, etc.) most people want removed/banned/burned.
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Old 01-18-2005, 10:33 PM   #22
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Do you think that there is a line to be drawn at some point, such as if the literature or music is heavily racist and hateful?
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Old 01-19-2005, 04:44 AM   #23
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Sometimes it seems people are at a loss as to what to do. Like, if you don't put a certain ethnic group in commercials, you're racist, yet, if you put them in the commercial, you're 'targeting' them to sell to and that's a bad thing too? In movies and TV shows, there are watchdog groups that make sure there are enough ethnic minorities in them and bash those who don't comply. However, there are some places where it's obvious tokenism, such as when you have to put ethnic groups that weren't historically there in Medieval England I've also noticed that many cartoons of old classics are now using animals as characters to avoid the 'racism' or 'tokenism' problems (until someone yells they aren't using enough of a certain type of animal, or their favorite dog breed was always cast as the bully, etc. )
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Old 01-19-2005, 04:52 AM   #24
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Sometimes personal, emotional sensitivity becomes intertwined w/ "political" sensitivity. An individual's sensitivity can be a very personal thing that can result from problems/issues that others know nothing about.

On the other hand some human beings seem so insensitive that I have to wonder sometimes how human they really are
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Old 01-19-2005, 04:57 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Do you think that there is a line to be drawn at some point, such as if the literature or music is heavily racist and hateful?
The only line is if the speech specifically entices someone to harm someone.
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Old 01-19-2005, 05:03 AM   #26
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Originally posted by U2Kitten
Sometimes it seems people are at a loss as to what to do. Like, if you don't put a certain ethnic group in commercials, you're racist, yet, if you put them in the commercial, you're 'targeting' them to sell to and that's a bad thing too? In movies and TV shows, there are watchdog groups that make sure there are enough ethnic minorities in them and bash those who don't comply. However, there are some places where it's obvious tokenism,
I've often noticed that it's white people who always complain about this. For a long time minorities weren't represented at all in film or TV. How would you feel if you made up 25% of this nation's population yet had no representaion in entertainment?
Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
I've also noticed that many cartoons of old classics are now using animals as characters to avoid the 'racism' or 'tokenism' problems [/B]
What?! I'm confused classic cartoons are now using animals? You mean they are going back and changing old cartoons?
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Old 01-19-2005, 05:58 AM   #27
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Political correctness: Oversensitive people are really annoying.

Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780


When did I ever say "I believe so and so should be banned because of its intolerance of christian conservatives!!!"? Never. Just because I recognize when someone's giving people like me a bad rap doesn't mean I run in the streets and demand that it stops. I don't. The most I do is get a little angry.

I don't really care if oversensitive people get upset, just when they start imposing that on everyone else. It's fine with me if christian conservatives get a bad rap in the mainstream (and we do), but do you'll never hear me asking them to take the stuff people find enjoyment in away, I just won't participate or contribute to it.
Yeah, it's the imposition on others that's annoying. I was being imposed on during the controversy over Cleopatra's background. Those people wouldn't let anyone disagree with them without calling them racists. I know people who don't like the pope and/or the Catholic Church, and I'm not going to tell them to shut up or whatever. If that's how they feel, fine. Just don't ask me to pitch my rosary.
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Old 01-19-2005, 06:07 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark
I love the Dave Chappelle Show because it's politically incorrect
Dave Chappelle and South Park.
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Old 01-19-2005, 06:57 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

I've often noticed that it's white people who always complain about this. For a long time minorities weren't represented at all in film or TV. How would you feel if you made up 25% of this nation's population yet had no representaion in entertainment?
What I'm saying is, there is no way to win. If you don't use enough of a certain group someone will complain. Then if you use them too much you're 'exploiting' them and 'targeting' them for sales so it's so hard to know what to do! You're always going to upset someone.

As far as using a certain number of ethincs into TV shows, there is of course nothing wrong with that as long as there's an actual reason for them to be there and they weren't just forced in to please somebody. There are shows I see that are entire black casts with no white folk and I couldn't care less. I like so few new shows these days but 2 I do somewhat enjoy are George Lopez and My Wife and Kids, the first a Hispanic family, the second a black family. Sure everyone should be represented, when possible and realistic, but it gets a little ridiculous when you have to start sticking ethnics in where there really is no role for them, such as putting black dudes in a movie about England or France in the 1200's (just an example) What I think I'm trying to say is, it shouldn't be forced, because to me that is an insult, it's just an obligation met to shut up the watchdog groups and not a real character, like, 'well here you go now shut up!' and that doesn't help anyone. I have even heard black people make fun of 'tokenism'! Everyone can tell when a character has been added just to satisfy quotas but has no real part, or is killed off early (I've heard black comedians joke about this)

The best thing to do, and what I'd do if I were making shows, is just to consider the minority actor for any part that doesn't specifically call for them to be white (such as family members of a white main character, or a Charles Dickens story about England in the 1800's) A good example of this, and one I applaud, is the scientist in Terminator II (he and his family being black) He was a real character with a real purpose, it didn't matter what color he was, and it was never brought up.

Sometimes there aren't enough of an ethnic group and others need to be made up for the part, such as when they can't find enough Native Americans for a movie where large numbers are needed for the cast.


Quote:
What?! I'm confused classic cartoons are now using animals? You mean they are going back and changing old cartoons?
No, hold on, I mean things like "David Copperfield" that are old literary classics set in Europe at times when the population was not 'diverse' yet, so they use animals to avoid the issue of having to make their cast look like the Burger King Kids' club when in the book and in reality that was not the case. It's an easy way out, really.

But I must add that the worst thing about PCness is that you can't even discuss it rationally without being accused of racism. The very questioning of its motives will get you attacked (as my post surely will too) So in a way it is the worst form of censorship the world has ever known.
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Old 01-19-2005, 07:04 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten


What I'm saying is, there is no way to win. If you don't use enough of a certain group someone will complain. Then if you use them too much you're 'exploiting' them and 'targeting' them for sales so it's so hard to know what to do! You're always going to upset someone.

As far as using a certain number of ethincs into TV shows, there is of course nothing wrong with that as long as there's an actual reason for them to be there and they weren't just forced in to please somebody. There are shows I see that are entire black casts with no white folk and I couldn't care less. I like so few new shows these days but 2 I do somewhat enjoy are George Lopez and My Wife and Kids, the first a Hispanic family, the second a black family. Sure everyone should be represented, when possible and realistic, but it gets a little ridiculous when you have to start sticking ethnics in where there really is no role for them, such as putting black dudes in a movie about England or France in the 1200's (just an example) What I think I'm trying to say is, it shouldn't be forced, because to me that is an insult, it's just an obligation met to shut up the watchdog groups and not a real character, like, 'well here you go now shut up!' and that doesn't help anyone. I have even heard black people make fun of 'tokenism'!
I agree it shouldn't be forced.


Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten


No, hold on, I mean things like "David Copperfield" that are old literary classics set in Europe at times when the population was not 'diverse' yet, so they use animals to avoid the issue of having to make their cast look like the Burger King Kids' club when in the book and in reality that was not the case. It's an easy way out, really.
Gotcha, I understand now. Thanks for the clarification I'm not up on my cartoons.
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