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Old 08-15-2006, 10:05 PM   #256
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Originally posted by anitram


What would stop anyone from just saying they're Jewish to be classified as low-risk?
I was stuck watchin Glen Beck (I think that is his name) on CNN tonight. He mentioned how he flew on El Al and they had some pretty deep quetions. El Al trains their own security folks for six months before ever going in front of a passenger. They have about 100 "openers"/questions to start. Then they go from there.

He said that he was questioned for more than an hour before being allowed to board.

El Al has not had an incident in more than 35 years!

I think a "registered traveler" program is needed.
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Old 08-16-2006, 09:18 AM   #257
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I know what a columnist is, there's no need to type in all caps and be condescending or insulting in that way. Yes he is a columnist, but that doesn't automatically mean his facts are wrong. Here's his e-mail address, you can discuss it with him if you wish

lehigh@globe.com

Ed Markey certainly has done his homework, here's his web site

http://markey.house.gov/

I'm sure both might have personal biases, but neither one works for an airline and thus has a vested interest in that respect. Just as I don't automatically believe what Ed or Scot say, I don't automatically believe what someone who works for an airline says either. But I do tend to believe that people like Ed Markey (who is the main focus of the column) and Thomas Keane, the chairman of the 9/11 Commission, are highly educated on the subject.
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Old 08-16-2006, 09:31 AM   #258
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
This has almost nothing to do with the line you quoted.
Yes it does. I disagree that it's "more dangerous" that many find a link between Islam and terror, than the psychopaths who murder thousands of innocent people every year.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Are you saying there is nothing wrong with linking terrorism and Muslims in general?
99% of the world's population understands that most muslims are not terrorists. But seemingly very few are willing to even admit that almost all terrorist attacks are committed by muslim extremists. This is why many who understand that THIS attack was not an isolated incident, and why many - rather than blame poverty altogether as the root cause - question the merits of the religion of peace when many followers have defined it to be the exact opposite.

We are not in on a War On "Terror" - although maybe we should be. It is not radical muslims alone that contribute threats to Western civilization. Hugo Chavez has their back, and who knows what Kim Jong Il is thinking. He's certainly not fond of democracy.

The problem is not entirely Osama bin Laden, but the millions who echo his hatred of infidels. If we find him, great. But the mission will not be accomplished unless we destroy the Islamofascist Movement altogether.

But tell me that no muslims misinterpret this religious proverb:
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." (Koran 8:12)

Go ahead and roll your eyes and turn a blind eye of ignorance. But we need more Muslims like this to admit that the fanaticism is a direct result of those who have perverted a religious faith:

"It is a certain fact that not all muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are muslims."
- Abdel Rahman Al Rashed
Manager of Al-Arabiya (news channel)

"Muslims must look inward to put a stop to many of our religious leaders who spend most of their sermons teaching hatred, intolerance, and violent jihad. We should not be afraid to admit that... so many of our religious leaders belong behind bars and not behind a pulpit."
- The Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism
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Old 08-16-2006, 10:44 AM   #259
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things are getting a little bit weirder. let's consider the following:

1. no one has yet to be charged in the plot
2. no evidence yet to support the plot itself
3. in the UK, suspects can be held for 28 days without being charged
4. all those arrested were under surveillance for a year or so

Craig Murray, the UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, has this to say:


[q]None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn't be a plane bomber for quite some time.

In the absence of bombs and airline tickets, and in many cases passports, it could be pretty difficult to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt that individuals intended to go through with suicide bombings, whatever rash stuff they may have bragged in internet chat rooms.

What is more, many of those arrested had been under surveillance for over a year - like thousands of other British Muslims. And not just Muslims. Like me. Nothing from that surveillance had indicated the need for early arrests.

Then an interrogation in Pakistan revealed the details of this amazing plot to blow up multiple planes - which, rather extraordinarily, had not turned up in a year of surveillance. Of course, the interrogators of the Pakistani dictator have their ways of making people sing like canaries. As I witnessed in Uzbekistan, you can get the most extraordinary information this way. Trouble is it always tends to give the interrogators all they might want, and more, in a desperate effort to stop or avert torture. What it doesn't give is the truth ...

We then have the extraordinary question of Bush and Blair discussing the possible arrests over the weekend. Why?

http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archive..._terror_p.html

[/q]



which begs the question -- have we been given bad/fanciful/fantastical information gleaned through torture?

the skepticism mounts.
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Old 08-16-2006, 05:43 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I know what a columnist is, there's no need to type in all caps and be condescending or insulting in that way. Yes he is a columnist, but that doesn't automatically mean his facts are wrong. Here's his e-mail address, you can discuss it with him if you wish

lehigh@globe.com

Ed Markey certainly has done his homework, here's his web site

http://markey.house.gov/

I'm sure both might have personal biases, but neither one works for an airline and thus has a vested interest in that respect. Just as I don't automatically believe what Ed or Scot say, I don't automatically believe what someone who works for an airline says either. But I do tend to believe that people like Ed Markey (who is the main focus of the column) and Thomas Keane, the chairman of the 9/11 Commission, are highly educated on the subject.
I guess I do not understand the point of you posting the articles then. If they are for point of reference...I am sure we as educated consumers of the Internet can go find news articles ourselves.

If it is to prove a point...be ready for some criticism!

Keane had nothing more than a quote in that column, by the way.

I do not doubt the fact the feel they (Keane and Markey) are educated. I am on the frontline daily dealing with the regulations though.
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Old 08-16-2006, 05:58 PM   #261
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There are articles posted here all the time, I don't have to defend that to you zoney, honestly really I don't. And your insult/sarcasm isn't required either. You've done it here before, par for the course I guess. Yes it was to prove a point that perhaps you don't know everything about the airline industry and what is really going on just because you work in it. Perhaps you should be ready for some criticism re the fact that your experience in the airline industry isn't truly indicative of what is/might be actually going on. You do come across as if you feel that way, whether it is your intention or not. Your opinion and experience can't and doesn't dispel or debunk anything in these articles-sorry, it doesn't for me.

I would never presume that the stated policies the company I work for are always carried out, I know for a fact they aren't. Any industry wants to portray itself in the best light possible, including yours-especially these days. And I would suggest that one airline's stated policy, even if followed to the letter, doesn't represent all airlines and their policies.

Tom Keane was the chairman of the 9/11 commission, regardless of the one quote I would still venture a guess that it's possible that he knows more than you do about the issue.
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Old 08-17-2006, 06:08 AM   #262
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
There are articles posted here all the time, I don't have to defend that to you zoney, honestly really I don't. And your insult/sarcasm isn't required either. You've done it here before, par for the course I guess. Yes it was to prove a point that perhaps you don't know everything about the airline industry and what is really going on just because you work in it. Perhaps you should be ready for some criticism re the fact that your experience in the airline industry isn't truly indicative of what is/might be actually going on. You do come across as if you feel that way, whether it is your intention or not. Your opinion and experience can't and doesn't dispel or debunk anything in these articles-sorry, it doesn't for me.

I would never presume that the stated policies the company I work for are always carried out, I know for a fact they aren't. Any industry wants to portray itself in the best light possible, including yours-especially these days. And I would suggest that one airline's stated policy, even if followed to the letter, doesn't represent all airlines and their policies.

Tom Keane was the chairman of the 9/11 commission, regardless of the one quote I would still venture a guess that it's possible that he knows more than you do about the issue.
The funny thing is, you haven't proved ANYTHING with the opinion piece you published! But I guess you believe everything you read to be factual.

Bottom line - there ARE holes in the TSA program...If a terrorist is interested in doing something, they are going to find a way. They need to focus on intelligence and passenger screening systems - not cargo. There are far more opportunities via passenger airliners over cargo shipments.

And Tom Keane was my governor loooong before 9/11.

If you take this as an insult...be more prepared next time. Again, I am IN IT every day, dealing with the constat changing culture of security.

You are posting opinion pieces with old quotes. You are trying to counter something I deal with on a daily basis with articles with "attention grabbing" quotes from politicians.
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:03 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoney!
But I guess you believe everything you read to be factual.

If you take this as an insult...be more prepared next time.
There's no need to be rude. You can explain that on the basis of experience, you disagree with an article's analysis, without insulting the intelligence of the person who posted it. Probably half the discussions in FYM start with and/or evolve through the posting of articles, and it often happens that someone disgrees completely with an article on the basis of their own privileged acquaintance with the subject. You are not unique in this regard and it doesn't justify ridiculing another poster.
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Old 08-18-2006, 09:05 AM   #264
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Yes indeed, and is that supposed to be some sort of threat? Sorry, you don't intimidate me in any way if that's your goal. And your manner of posting, and your snide comments, are what is truly insulting-and uncalled for. Be better prepared? For what, for you to question anything and everything I (or anyone) might post here that is airline related because of course your experience is defining? And for you to use that experience as a factual argument?

There are teachers here who don't react in such a way when anyone in FYM discusses a teacher-related issue, just to give one example. Or when anyone "dares" to suggest that their experience isn't indicative of absolute truth and superior knowledge-in fact, quite the opposite in my experience.

You haven't proven anything with your experience on a daily basis either. Bottom line is, it is just that-your experience, which I would contend is at the very least biased by your job. Defensiveness is no excuse for rudeness, and doesn't mean you have superior knowledge either. I would never claim to have superior knowledge regarding any related subject by virtue of my daily work experience.

The information that exists outside your work experience is available to any "educated consumer". I don't believe everything I read to be factual-but honestly I don't have to, and don't, take anything you say to be factual either-because you say it or claim it to be true, or for any other reason. And I certainly don't take corporate policy, or what anyone might claim that policy is or how it is allegedly carried out, at face value either. No matter how many times you bring up your experience, that is still going to be the case.
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Old 08-21-2006, 12:14 PM   #265
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I obviously cannot argue with you. You post articles and I have day-to-day experience.

Believe whatever you want!

Ignorance is bliss!
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Old 08-21-2006, 12:58 PM   #266
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The plot to blow up planes may have been foiled, but it's looking more and more like the terrorists have won:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Mutiny as passengers refuse to fly until Asians are removed
Passengers refuse to allow holiday jet to take off until two Asian men are thrown off plane


By CHRISTOPHER LEAKE and ANDREW CHAPMAN

12:08pm 20th August 2006

"British holidaymakers staged an unprecedented mutiny - refusing to allow their flight to take off until two men they feared were terrorists were forcibly removed.

"The extraordinary scenes happened after some of the 150 passengers on a Malaga-Manchester flight overheard two men of Asian appearance apparently talking Arabic."
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Old 08-21-2006, 03:45 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoney!
I obviously cannot argue with you. You post articles and I have day-to-day experience.

Believe whatever you want!
Clarification:

My job gives me access to "Sensitive Security Information." If I could truly sit there and quote Security Directives, I would...but I value my job and choose not to lose it proving your "articles" are wrong. So, you could tell me I am wrong all you want...and I can tell you the articles are not factual, but I cannot support my argument without losing my job.

As for the education profession vs. my job:

There is a lot of "grey area" in teaching. A teaching style or what defines a good teacher or education program is really different for every individual child. There is a lot of valuable debate on either side.

There is very little "grey area" to a federal set of regulations you must follow as an airline for security purposes.
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Old 08-23-2006, 06:54 PM   #268
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I really don't care honestly what secret or sensitive info you say you know, I do believe Ed Markey and other folks know things too. But I do care that in your zeal to defend your industry, you think you can insult and malign my intelligence and do so in such a rude way. I suggest you refrain from doing that, because I would put mine up against yours anyday-and it might even be superior. One never knows about that. It is rude and uncalled for. Might even be considered a violation of the guidelines for behavior on Interference, I would think. And I for one tend to completely tune out someone who does that, in my everyday life and on here.

Regulations vs how they are followed, I have already discussed that. And there are certainly plenty of regulations in teaching. And I will repeat-what your airline may or may not do is one airline among many.
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:32 PM   #269
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unbelievable.

I am still confused...are you insulted because I claim you post articles?



I think you are misguided in my attempts to show you that some of the articles (much like you have done in the past...read: history of doing this) provide little insight to what is actually going on. You are taking insult to the fact that I have first-hand knowledge that the information in these articles contain false information.

You are taking offense to the fact that I am telling you that a politician is not telling the complete truth (another fairly common practice).

If this insults you...do not post articles as your main voice on Interference.com.



And I am SURE you can prove to me that whatever industry you are in is superior to mine...I am not sure on what basis you would judge that on...but I am confident you can find some way to do it!
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Old 08-24-2006, 09:02 AM   #270
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No, I think she's insulted because of remarks like
Quote:
I guess you believe everything you read to be factual.
and
Quote:
Believe whatever you want!

Ignorance is bliss!
You insulted randhail earlier in the thread in the same way:
Quote:
I guess my DAILY experience with airliners has been overshadowed in your mind by "world Net Daily" (whatever that is!).

That's fine. I guess World net daily is more reliable than me.

But you can quote WORLD NET DAILY all you want!
No one is obliged to agree with you in any event, and they're far less likely to do so when you phrase your replies in this way. Again, you can make a case that on the basis of professional experience with the topic you disagree (and intend to keep doing so), without insulting the intelligence of other posters. Not unprecedented around here, and not difficult either. You can consider this a warning.

If either of you want to continue pressing the matter, then you can email me. I think the thread has been derailed enough at this point.
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