Please forgive my naiveté of the issue of Immigration into my country..

[Justin24]

Justin, this logic doesn't make sense. By this logic all policemen, FBI agents, etc would have no need to follow the law.

But the diffrence is they do follow the law, yes there are some bad apples. But I dont see how it's not ok for them to take down a smuggler but it's ok to let millions of people flood our cities.

I am going out on a limb here. (In no way am I trying to disrespect and there are differences between, animals plants and humans)

But if you introduce a new species of animal or plant to a new environment it can cause damage to that environment.

If millions of people come in from all parts of the world, will there be enough resources to accomidate.

As I said before I mean no disrepect. I am only showing and example and there are differences.

 

[Diemen]

But these border patrol agents didn't follow the law. Once a criminal has crossed back over the border, you can't shoot him. He's not in your country anymore.

So they broke the law. It doesn't matter who the criminal was or what he did.

And your example of a new species of animal or plant is flawed because immigrants aren't a different species.* Now if you want to talk about the problems that come from overpopulation, that's a more appropriate way to go.







*Can't believe I had to actually type that

 

[Justin24]

But these border patrol agents didn't follow the law. Once a criminal has crossed back over the border, you can't shoot him. He's not in your country anymore.

So they broke the law. It doesn't matter who the criminal was or what he did.

And your example of a new species of animal or plant is flawed because immigrants aren't a different species.* Now if you want to talk about the problems that come from overpopulation, that's a more appropriate way to go.
*Can't believe I had to actually type that

Thats what I meant to say. He was not in Mexico yet he was about to cross.

There have been reports of Federaly police crossing in to our border smuggle people and drugs in.

 

[BVS]

But the diffrence is they do follow the law, yes there are some bad apples. But I dont see how it's not ok for them to take down a smuggler but it's ok to let millions of people flood our cities.

There are laws. Do cops shoot burglars? No unless a life is in danger. A cop should fire only when there are no other choices. Was this man armed? Were there lives in danger?

If not he obviously broke the law if he's serving time.

 

[Justin24]

We dont know if he had a gun. We dont know the whole story.

 

[Diemen]

I'd be interested to hear the border patrol agents' testimony, that's for sure.

 

[BVS]

We dont know if he had a gun. We dont know the whole story.

But the jury did, right?

 

[anitram]

We dont know if he had a gun. We dont know the whole story.

Well that's why I said it's a matter for the Courts to decide. Why did you even ask what we thought?

 

[maycocksean]

This is what amazes me. That everyone says there are laws and that what the Patrol Agents did was against the law. The Smuggler broke the law and so do millions of people who come in Illegaly from other countries. So it's ok to break one law (entering illegally) but to take down a smuggler is wrong?

Remember smugglers can bring in drugs, sex slaves weapons etc..

The African slaves brought to america were brought by smugglers weren't they?

Justin, I'm not sure if you've really thought through what you're advocating. You're suggesting that law enforcement officers should be above the law--that one person breaking a law gives license for someone else to also flout the laws also. You're arguing that it's not okay for a person to enter the country illegally therefore it is okay to murder that person.

And no, the slave trade in the Americas was perfectly legal.

 

[maycocksean]

It seems to me that there are just too many people from some countries (such as Mexico) that want to enter the U.S. The U.S. can't accomodate them all, and as Yolland pointed out, the wait to enter can take years with no garuantee of being approved for a work visa. I'm guessing many of the desperate poor feel they can't afford to wait for yeras.

 

[Bluer White]

Justin, I'm not sure if you've really thought through what you're advocating. You're suggesting that law enforcement officers should be above the law--that one person breaking a law gives license for someone else to also flout the laws also.

I thought Justin was advocating enforcement of "all" the laws. Laws checking the border patrol as well as laws governing immigration. Maybe he can clarify.

 

[CTU2fan]

The way I'm reading this story is, they caught the guy with pot, entering illegally, and when he got caught he ran...and they shot him in the back, while fleeing. That's wrong, period. I'm guessing based on the verdict that the jury saw it the same.

That said, I'm sure he didn't get his pot back...so when he's sent back to Mexico sans pot or cash I'm sure his supplier will finish what the border patrol didn't.

It concerns me that with so many immigrants trying to enter the country, from all nations, that folks only seem to get worked up over immigrants from Mexico.

 

[Justin24]

I thought Justin was advocating enforcement of "all" the laws. Laws checking the border patrol as well as laws governing immigration. Maybe he can clarify.

Law enforcement must obey the laws as all people, there not above it and not overstep it. We dont know the whole story as I said. But we as a country have immigration laws that must be followed and enforced, so why do people get so worked up and say oh just leave them be, who cares??? That does not make sense.

 

[maycocksean]

It concerns me that with so many immigrants trying to enter the country, from all nations, that folks only seem to get worked up over immigrants from Mexico.

Indeed.

 

[maycocksean]

But we as a country have immigration laws that must be followed and enforced, so why do people get so worked up and say oh just leave them be, who cares??? That does not make sense.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that immigration laws don't need to be followed or enforced. They do. I think we all agree on that. There may be some disagreement as to how effective or humane certain immigration laws or policies might be, but I don't think anyone is saying that illegal immigration "doesn't matter."

I think people ARE saying that just because someone breaks immigration laws, that does not give law enforcement officials carte blanche right to shoot them down.

 

[redhotswami]

TIt concerns me that with so many immigrants trying to enter the country, from all nations, that folks only seem to get worked up over immigrants from Mexico.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

[Liesje]

It concerns me that with so many immigrants trying to enter the country, from all nations, that folks only seem to get worked up over immigrants from Mexico.

Agreed, although I hope it has less to do with the fact they are Mexican and more to do with the fact that we share a land border with what happens to be Mexico and it's almost impossible for immigrants from other countries to come and remain illegally.

 

[maycocksean]

Agreed, although I hope it has less to do with the fact they are Mexican and more to do with the fact that we share a land border with what happens to be Mexico and it's almost impossible for immigrants from other countries to come and remain illegally.

I would hope so too. But I have my doubts.

To be fair, I think the prejudice and the sheer number of people from Mexico that want in to the country feed each other. There might be less prejudice if there weren't so MANY illegals coming out of Mexico. There might also be less prejudice if those illegals were white, English speaking folks.

Really, America--and many other nations--have had a long history of going all nativist when huge amounts of foreign "Others" from somewhere else seem to be pouring into the country. Remember how the Irish were treated, the Chinese Exlusion Acts of the late 19th century etc. A vitriolic mix of racial/ethnic prejudice engergized by fear of an overwhelming wave of the foreign "horde" is part of our history and continues today.

 

[diamond]

I don't know what the costs involved in an "average" citizenship case ultimately amount to, but the process does take many years for most, and I'd assume that's another motive for trying to get around it. First you have to acquire Longterm Permanent Resident (LPR) status--i.e., get a Green Card--which in itself usually takes several years. This begins with a qualifying relative or employer petitioning US Citizenship & Immigration Services (USCIS) for your right to apply for a visa (if it's an employer, they must first prove that no current US citizens or LPRs are available to fill the position for which you'd be hired). Once the petition is approved, then you (or your employer) apply to the State Department for an immigration visa. This process takes anywhere from around 6 months (it's faster if it's an employer filing) to several years, depending on the quotas for the country you're coming from and various other factors. Then once you have the visa, you're ready apply to USCIS for permanent residency status, which also requires assembling a large array of documentation--tax records, medical records, employment records, etc. Currently this process averages about 3 years, according to their website. Often during this time the visa expires, so you have to leave the country and then start that process all over again. LPR status does NOT give you the right to bring your spouse or children to the US.

There's also the "Green Card Lottery," which is mostly for prospective immigrants from countries with low rates of immigration to the US, and which if you're selected allows you to bypass much of the above. However, proportionally very few immigrants acquire LPR status this way, as selection is random (relative to the limited country-of-origin pool) and the number of Green Cards available through lottery is very limited.

Once LPR status is obtained, then you must reside continuously in the US as an LPR for 5 years before being eligible to apply for citizenship, which requires basic command of English (except in the case of some longstanding older LPRs), as well as of course passing the citizenship exam.

The only fees I was able to find data on (and these are only averages) is that the immigration visa application fee is about $40 (each time), the LPR status application fee is about $30, and the citizenship application fee is about $50. But presumably there are in practice many other costs involved (travel, legal consultation, assembling the needed documentation, vaccinations, etc.).

Of course there are a zillion and one potential exceptions to any or all of the above involved, but so far as I know this is roughly how a "typical" citizenship acquisition process currently works.

Yolland thank you for detailed explanation.

Dave C thank you for yours as well.

If the system is that complicated if should be streamlined.
It should also be streamlined for the productive and law abiding immigrants who are here that want to do it legally.

There should be an allotted amount of time for ppl to decide if they want to continue living here, who arent here legally.

If they are here illegally (from entering only) and haven't broken laws they should be allowed to stay and pay nominal back/late fees for years that they've benifited from living here in the USA.

I think if it's super expensive to attain citizenship than those fees should be reduced also.

If current illegals living here now have committed felonies, on top of being here illegally, they should be deported quickly. They could be considered to be allowed back 10 years later after a careful review of those previously committed crimes here in the USA, depending on the offense.

I'm not oppose to a larger wall on the border.

I only want ppl to immigrate to my country with the best of intrentions and for the right reasons.

Any of this make sense to the sober-minded out there?

Thanks for all who have contributed.

peace,

dbs

 

[maycocksean]

^I actually think these ideas are pretty reasonable.

 

[Mofo]

For the record most of Mexico is against the APPO. They are a liability to Mexico and it's full of assholes who have nothing better to do, than terrorize, vandalize and have destroy their state economy in less than 6 months, they made thousands of people lose their jobs, small businesses close down. Now guerrillas that support their movement have made 5-7 terrorist attaks in Oaxaca and Mexico City probably the first made in Mexico for political reasons, so fuck 'em and don't "support them" just because they area against the goverment. At the beginning their reasons were legitimate and what was suppose to be a peaceful movement has cost a lot of things including lives to my country not to mention the education of thousands of kids



Diamond I applaud you for asking for information before stating your opinion or making ignorant statementes

And yes the main reason immigrants don't go through legal means to gain US citizenship is because its very difficult and expensive (for them) each appoinment costs money, and if you get denied you have to wait 6 months to a year and that's a lot of time when you have to feed your family

 

[diamond]

thank you mojo for the moxxie in your comments.

 

[meegannie]

Here are the current fees:
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=db029c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

and here are the general paths for obtaining lawful permanent residency (LPR), or a "green card": http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=4f719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

Just as an example of how much is required (and this is a relatively easy immigration path), for me (US citizen) to repatriate and bring my husband (UK citizen), we would have to submit the following:

I-130 (Petition for Alien Relative) - $190.00
G-325A (Biographical Information Sheet)
DS-2001 (Notification of Applicant Readiness)
DS-230 (Application for Immigrant Visa and Alien Registration)
I-864 (Affidavit of Support)

We would also have to submit all of the supporting evidence requested, send tax returns for the three years prior to applying, and obtain police certificates. My husband would have to attend an interview and have a medial examination (£160/$300).

This is the process for the much faster (usually completed in about six months) direct consular filing through the US embassy in London which we're eligible for since I have permanent residency in the UK. If I didn't, we'd have to apply through the National Visa Center in the US.

 

[Diemen]

Yolland thank you for detailed explanation.

Dave C thank you for yours as well.

If the system is that complicated if should be streamlined.
It should also be streamlined for the productive and law abiding immigrants who are here that want to do it legally.

There should be an allotted amount of time for ppl to decide if they want to continue living here, who arent here legally.

If they are here illegally (from entering only) and haven't broken laws they should be allowed to stay and pay nominal back/late fees for years that they've benifited from living here in the USA.

I think if it's super expensive to attain citizenship than those fees should be reduced also.

If current illegals living here now have committed felonies, on top of being here illegally, they should be deported quickly. They could be considered to be allowed back 10 years later after a careful review of those previously committed crimes here in the USA, depending on the offense.

I'm not oppose to a larger wall on the border.

I only want ppl to immigrate to my country with the best of intrentions and for the right reasons.

Any of this make sense to the sober-minded out there?

Thanks for all who have contributed.

peace,

dbs

Wow. I must say I agree with nearly all of this post. Well put, diamond.


I don't think I've ever said that before...

 

[diamond]