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Old 11-13-2006, 08:14 AM   #16
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You don't want kids to have an education, and, yet, you'll be the same people to whine when they're on welfare for the rest of their lives too.
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Old 11-13-2006, 11:19 AM   #17
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And when they have a worthless piece of paper saying they were dragged throgh High School until they were 18 it will affect those rates how much? If they are going to go into vocational training then they will, if they are going to end up as dole bludgers they will; keeping people in a system they don't want to be in is a waste of resources and effort and it would be to the detriment of any system.
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Old 11-13-2006, 11:33 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ormus
You don't want kids to have an education, and, yet, you'll be the same people to whine when they're on welfare for the rest of their lives too.
Actually, I was being pretty facetious, (I don't think unemployed 16 or 17 year olds are generally counted in the unemployment figures) but I do think that unemployment is one of the underlying issues here. With thousands of immigrants arriving each month taking up a lot of the low paid, low skilled jobs I think there is a worry that there will be an underclass of long term unemployed nationals who haven't got the skills to get a job.
Of course everyone wants kids to have a proper education, and I don't think anyone has said that that isn't the case, but Labour are approaching it with their usual nanny state attitute. To keep disaffected, disruptive pupils at school any longer than the current school leaving age would be disastrous, both for them and for all the other pupils and teachers. By all means encourage as many as possible to stay on but I think it would be far better to teach those less academically able kids proper vocational skills at a younger age say from 14, if necessary through work placements/apprentice schemes etc so they've got a chance of a decent career.
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Old 11-13-2006, 11:45 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ormus
You don't want kids to have an education, and, yet, you'll be the same people to whine when they're on welfare for the rest of their lives too.
Of-course I want kids to have a decent education which is what they ought to be getting during the 11 years that they currently have be at school for. Unfortunately for many people this isn't the case (the people let down by the system I mentioned in my original post). What we ought to be doing is investing money in improving the quality of education and, like greenlight says, the amount of vocational courses on offer to GCSE students.
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Old 11-13-2006, 12:12 PM   #20
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Originally posted by indra

And in my experience it is true that most kids who skip a grade generally do so in the earlier grades. Now my overachieving older brother... he completed nearly two years of college while still in high school. And my older sister was such a delightful student I continually got "why can't you be more like your sister?" comments throughout school. A little note to teachers -- that is NOT the way to motivate students. I generally looked at the teachers who said that, thought "Fuck you, asshole!" and quit working completely in that class.

Oh. Sorry. That wasn't really on the subject at all, but I hated school when I was a kid and if I hadn't graduated at 16 I would have dropped out. And it did feel good to rant.
That sounds...awful!
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Old 11-14-2006, 09:48 AM   #21
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Sorry, you asked what most students did not what they had to do. I'd say from my experience about two thirds of my year left at 16 with the rest staying on. About half a dozen people then left after doing their AS Levels and never completed the full A level.
Actually scrub that, I was right the first time. It was more like half stayed and half left.
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Old 11-14-2006, 12:06 PM   #22
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Originally posted by indra
Can you get through faster if you do the work at an accerated pace? For example in the US you can skip grades if you can do the work -- I finished at 16 what most people finish at 17 or 18. Is that an option there -- say to take the GCSE at 15 and then the A2 at 17?

This really doesn't have much to do with the topic at hand, but I figured I'd ask while there was someone who might know.
Yeah you can skip grades as such, the education system here is much more exam geared I believe, you need to do well in your GCSEs when you are normally around 16 to be allowed to do your A Levels (17-18), which you need a certain combination of subjects and grades out of usually 3/4 A levels to get into a specific university course.

You can sit those exams anytime you want to really, you just pay the examining board for the exam papers, sit them at an exam centre and that is more or less that. You don't even neccessarily have to go to school here....home schooling is on the rise, parents taking their kids out of the system and teaching them thereselves....there are 8 year olds who sit their GCSEs and A levels and are free to do so (of course these are the wonderkids), but unis have a general rule of only letting in people aged 17+, unless they judge there are special circumstances.
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