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Old 06-05-2005, 08:49 AM   #46
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
deep I resent you putting that picture into this thread and attributing it to MY POST...

That is so offensive to me on many levels.

I would like a MOD to remove that....and attribute it to deep where it belongs.

I thought I was helping you out by showing what you were referring to.

What is the point of making a thread about Piss Christ without any information about it
or an image of it?

I am sorry it upset you.

If the mods want to change it
that is fine with me.
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Old 06-05-2005, 09:44 AM   #47
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
I don't know what makes you think that stopping mandatory tax-funding of personal art projects would "destroy art". People create art every moment of every day without help from the government. I write music with no help from the government.
But I assume you don't think you could ever have a career in music because it is cost-prohibitive?

As I've said before, the amount spent on art with taxes is miniscule, compared to the total national budget. If we think cutting that out will lower our taxes, think again! We have hundreds and hundreds of billions being spent on a "war" right now.

On the other hand, we have tax money being spent on "faith-based initiatives." I object to religions receiving government money. Do you suggest that we end "faith-based initiatives," because of the objections that I and many people have over it?

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Old 06-05-2005, 10:31 AM   #48
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Originally posted by melon


But I assume you don't think you could ever have a career in music because it is cost-prohibitive?
You assume wrong. First, I don't really care to have a career in music. But even if I did want that, it wouldn't be cost that holds me back, it would be:

(1)A lack of connections in the industry (it's not what you know, it's WHO you know)

(2) There is no market anymore for my style of music: Bach meets ABBA meets Tangerine Dream
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Old 06-05-2005, 11:16 AM   #49
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What is the point of making a thread about Piss Christ without any information about it
or an image of it?
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Old 06-05-2005, 07:34 PM   #50
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
How does anyone define what is tasteful or offensive?
Is it undefinable, or is it just difficult to define?

The whole concept of "flaming" is just a reaction to a post that is considered lacking in taste or offensive.
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Old 06-05-2005, 09:40 PM   #51
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For every "offensive" art work, there's hundreds or thousands of perfectly clean artworks out there.

It is tantamount to the military. There's hundreds of thousands of honorable military servicemen who do their job every day. The bad apples get the press coverage, though, and ruin it for everyone else. "Piss Christ" is the bad apple.

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Old 06-05-2005, 10:39 PM   #52
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Originally posted by melon
For every "offensive" art work, there's hundreds or thousands of perfectly clean artworks out there.

It is tantamount to the military. There's hundreds of thousands of honorable military servicemen who do their job every day. The bad apples get the press coverage, though, and ruin it for everyone else. "Piss Christ" is the bad apple.

Melon
You're exactly right. It is always the wack jobs, extremists and haters that get the press.

I plead with you to remember that this phenomenon applies to Christians, as well as other groups. On the news, do you hear about Joe Schmoe who helps out at the shelter every week, or Suzy Schmoe who spends years in the 3rd world helping people irrigate their crops? Nope, you hear about the televangelists who say "send me 100,000 or God's gonna kill me" and other "so-called" Christians who insult, demean, and even abuse gays. But it is a small minority of Christians who behave that way. In fact, I'll tell you the truth; if someone tells me he's a Christian and yet the next day I see him abuse a homosexual, I'm not sure I would believe that he really is a Christian. The Bible says that being "born again" changes someone, and if someone thinks it's okay to abuse people, I have serious doubts as to his claim of being changed.
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Old 06-05-2005, 10:52 PM   #53
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Is it undefinable, or is it just difficult to define?

The whole concept of "flaming" is just a reaction to a post that is considered lacking in taste or offensive.
Difficult, mainly. This example is easily definable. It's a load of garbage by any standard. It's seemingly intentionally insulting and offensive and even to those who do not strictly follow a Christian faith. I find it revolting, and I try to be open minded. but not to the point of tastlessness. Even without this, as an artwork, it's frankly crap.
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Old 06-05-2005, 11:06 PM   #54
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"In my work I always seek the unusual, or at least what is not traditionally considered beautiful. In my work I try to find the normal in the strange and vice-versa."

-- Andres Serrano, 1987

Andres Serrano caused a scandal in 1987 when he showed Piss Christ, a large photo of a crucifix submerged in a glass of urine.

The shock of this piece originates from the juxtaposition of what is to some the most holy of images with what is to many of those same people consider the most base and vile of substances. Some assumed that the submersion of the crucifix in urine was a prima facie statement of contempt for Christ and therefore blasphemous. In fact, Serrano was brought up in a devout Catholic family and religion was very significant to him as a child. In my view, he was examining our own mental categories of beauty and profanity, divinity, and humanity.

Revulsion at the sight of one's bodily products is natural and serves an evolutionary purpose. Serrano forces us to confront the nature of such revulsions with pictures of blood, semen, and urine by finding beauty in their depiction. He refuses to let us keep the divine from the profane in our minds.

Indeed, to have a mature appreciation of Christ's humanity -- most believers consider him to have been both fully human and fully divine -- one would have to confront the basest implications of his humanity. Jesus urinated and defecated like the rest of us.

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Old 06-05-2005, 11:15 PM   #55
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A big enough controversy can hide/overshadow the worst talent in anyone. Serrano excelled at that.
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Old 06-05-2005, 11:31 PM   #56
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Postmodern art, in general, generates controversy. "Piss Christ" just epitomizes the notion of postmodern art, for better or for worse. And, like all postmodern art, you'll either love it for its irony or you'll hate it completely.

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Old 06-06-2005, 06:15 AM   #57
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I think a good question to ask is where does art go from here? I guess it all depends on how someone defines art or what people think art should do for humanity.

I have been to the MOMA and the Metropolitan, and to tell you the truth, I leave the Met feeling inspired while I leave the MOMA with nothing but a huge question mark. Why? Much of the stuff they have on display there is literally crap (one display has different kinds of bodily fluid stains on cloth). What about the piece that was simply a white board? How much work went into that?
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Old 06-06-2005, 06:18 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


Difficult, mainly. This example is easily definable. It's a load of garbage by any standard. It's seemingly intentionally insulting and offensive and even to those who do not strictly follow a Christian faith. I find it revolting, and I try to be open minded. but not to the point of tastlessness. Even without this, as an artwork, it's frankly crap.
I agree. I do not consider this art. It's complete garbage. If anyone at my studio did anything like this they'd get kicked out on their ass.
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Old 06-06-2005, 06:30 AM   #59
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Originally posted by Ft. Worth Frog
I think a good question to ask is where does art go from here? I guess it all depends on how someone defines art or what people think art should do for humanity.

I have been to the MOMA and the Metropolitan, and to tell you the truth, I leave the Met feeling inspired while I leave the MOMA with nothing but a huge question mark. Why? Much of the stuff they have on display there is literally crap (one display has different kinds of bodily fluid stains on cloth). What about the piece that was simply a white board? How much work went into that?
There's some modern art I just can't get into, either. I look at alot of trying to get ideas for my own paintings. My favorite artists are Delacroix, Van Gogh, and I've recently gotten into Chagall after one of my teachers at the studio suggested I look at his stuff for inspiration. I especially like his early stuff, it has a nice folksy look to it. It's inspired by his childhood in Russia.
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Old 06-06-2005, 06:32 AM   #60
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Difficult, mainly. This example is easily definable. It's a load of garbage by any standard.
Not in my eyes.
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