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Old 07-14-2004, 09:05 AM   #1
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Philippines 'pulling out' Iraq troops

Seems like the Philippine Government donsn't refuse to be blackmailed

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3892125.stm

Quote:
anila says it is organising the withdrawal of troops from Iraq after threats made to a Philippine hostage.
I was no friend of this "coalition of the willing" And the philiphines are not important if you look at the number of their soldiers but i don't think it's good to make these decisions because you are blackmailed by terrorists.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:28 AM   #2
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Another win for the terrorist
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:29 AM   #3
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I think that any level headed person can agree that by capitulating to terrorists a lot more blood will be spilt. The Philipinos have a strong history of fighting the good fight and I think that Gloria Arroyo is doing a disservice to the fight for liberty in Iraq and around the world. First Spain and now the Philipines, governments dragging their peoples pride and honour through the mud in the face of sheer barbarism, I stand by what I said, whenever a terrorist murders a hostage or threatens too increase security contingents and reinforce the battle against them. Osama Bin Laden may well be right and the civilized world is weak, a paper tiger who will fold when threatened with big knives and savagery right now I know that he is right about many, but by no means all. The strong will always fight and die to protect the weak and when it is all over and the fight to bring peace and democracy to Iraq is done, the sacrifices shall be worth it and those that fought shall be heroes and those that opposed it shall be revealed for whom they really are.

If the coalition falls apart in the face of these barbarians then I will know that the civilized world is fucked and the War on Terrorism pointless because leaders will not stand up for their own principles, then and only then will I believe that whatever is left is not worth being defended and the Islamist's are free to claim it for themselves, the carcass of the once great world to be claimed by the savages.

I will never forget the reason we fight, the terror inflicted upon innocent people and in my mind Osama bin Laden and Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao are beyond redemption and there is a special place by their side in hell for Deserters of the noble and just cause of freedom in the world, Namely Zapatero and if this pullout from Iraq goes ahead Arroyo too.

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Old 07-14-2004, 01:40 PM   #4
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A_Wanderer:
I thought you were an atheist?
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
there is a special place by their side in hell for Deserters of the noble and just cause of freedom in the world,
one of the worst things Ive read in a while. Why don't you save your judgement for yourself instead of implying the phillipians are are no batter than the nazis.

For all your talk of courage and blah blah blah, some people just don't want to die or they want to save others from dying if it is within their power. I respect their decision and I think others should as well.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:45 PM   #6
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It is not saving others, it is condeming more innocent people to die. This is rewarding terrorists and showing them that barbarity works and I think that there is going to be a lot of innocent blood on the hands of the Philipino government if they go ahead full and this is not just stalling. I stand by that 100%, terrorism works on a sliding scale, if you reward minor terrorist acts such as beheadings what do you think they will do when they want more? 9/11 didn't just happen, it was a steady progression in the latter half of the 20th century that showed that terrorism was ideal for bringing any groups problems to the frontline. It worked wonders for the Palestinians who after the Munich Olympics rallied many nations behind their cause and brought through UN resolution after resolution condeming Israel. It worked for Osama Bin Laden whom by attacking the west gained a massive ammount of support for his cause on the "arab street", this is a sorry example of what happens when the world negotiates with terrorists and I refuse to sit down and say that I just accept their decision and I wont speak against it because we should just sit back and accept what goes on in the world. People made statements against this war, I will exercise the same freedom of speech in making a statement against this despicable action.

When you are captured by these Islamist terrorists you are dead meat. It is a dead zone and governments cannot negotiate with them ever, it emboldens them. Now you may find my opinion that by doing this is almost as evil as the terrorists offensive but I will stand by it, they are rewarding terrorist actions by capitulating their entire forces over a single life. I cannot stress enough how bad this is, this single actions condemns even more people to die and I will not respect that one bit, they are trading a single Philipino for many more other innocents and that is not right, they are not saving others, they are killing others by proxy.

I didn't say that the Philipinos are no better than Nazis. I said that on an order of whats bad you have your front line, which would be the Nazi's or Islamist terrorists who are followed on the list by those that support or give comfort to them them. There you get Saudi Arabia, CAIR (Muslim Civil Rights organization, not inherently wrong however the strong connections to know terrorists by its founders and the cover that they provide for perpetrators and those inciting violence place it on this ring) as well as leaders who capitulate in the face of being threatened who now it appears includes the Philipino government who have encouraged and comforted the terrorists who will no doubt continue their strategy of beheadding and other vile deeds rather than abandon it because it was unsuccessful.
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Old 07-15-2004, 12:43 AM   #7
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all of this is simply your opinion

you have no idea what would happen if everyone pulled out.

in the meantime, I would be very thankful if I was a hostage ...and my country pulled out of a place where it didn't make sense for us to be in the first place.
I imagine there are a lot of happy people in the phillipians right now
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Old 07-15-2004, 01:57 AM   #8
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I have some idea that without a strong millitary presence to provide security for the Iraqi people and protection for their government the situation could spin out of control and the country could split along ethnic and factional lines opening up the possibility of an Iranian invasion in the name of being a stabalising power but in actuality being a grab for the Basra oil fields which they could annex along with the large population of Shiites in the South. The blowback from a failed Iraq would be just like the blowback from allowing Afghanistan to fail only rather than 9/11 the resulting attack would claim hundreds of thousands of lives. Failure is not an option.

Fact is that that hostage (if he is even released) has to live the rest of his life in the knowledge that other innocent people have died so that he can live, that is a burden that nobody should carry. I would applaud the government if they could negotiate an unconditional release by threatening the terrorists and would mourn for a lost life if they had stood their ground but this action deserves nothing less than condemnation. Negotiating with terrorists and giving into their demands is aiding the terrorists and their cause, think about all the other people that will be killed in the brutal fashion because of this one decision. Being beheaded is a quick way to die if it is done properly however these terrorists don't use a Guilltoine or a single swipe of a sword, they carve a persons head off, screams give way to gurgling as the victim bleeds profusely, but the job is only half done because then the work through from the back, only after having the front of the neck mutilated do they go to the back and cut the head from the body before shoving it up into the camera. That is one of the worst ways to die and I repeat, it is not right to save one innocent life knowing that by doing it even more innocents (especially Philipinos because once a state is proven to be a good client they will be targeted especially) will suffer the same fate and I stand by my Dante's Inferno-esque comment that people who give in to terrorist demands and help them kill more people are in my mind only slightly less evil than the terrorists themselves.
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Old 07-15-2004, 05:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Basstrap


one of the worst things Ive read in a while. Why don't you save your judgement for yourself instead of implying the phillipians are are no batter than the nazis.

For all your talk of courage and blah blah blah, some people just don't want to die or they want to save others from dying if it is within their power. I respect their decision and I think others should as well.
I'm positive that A.Wanderer didn't mean to imply that the Phillipinos are no better than the Nazis......

If a shopkeeper is shaken down by the mob and told to pay up or else - thats called extortion and its a crime. If the shopkeeper gives in once then the mob goons will come back over and over again and it won't ever end.

Same thing here. First Spain gave in and gave the terrorists a victory and now the Phillipines(sp?) is going to do the same thing. Where will it end? When Iraq is totally over-run by terrorist thugs who make Saddam Hussein look like Pollyanna???....NO....they must be stopped by any means possible and the answer is not to give in to their demands but rather to give them a big resounding SCREW YOU......

I'm truly sorry for the innocent hostages who are being toyed and bargained with like products in a marketplace, but terrorism cannot be rewarded.
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Old 07-15-2004, 11:00 AM   #10
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Thankyou AchtungBono, reason and common sense are virtues that few on either point of the political spectrum posess.

I guess that when push comes to shove alliances can quickly find out who their real friends are.

This decision has a great deal of implications for SE Asia, the Phillipines has been accepting a lot of millitary assistance from the US in the fight against Jemaah Islamiyah (They were that bastards who perpetrated the Bali Bombing - they had a lovely codename for my type, White Meat), now having US troops operating in Mindanao is a thorn in the side of JI so what do you think is going to happen now?

The terrorists have been shown that Manilla is a willing client for their will, there will be more Philipino lives taken and the possibility of bombing campaigns throughout SE Asia has suddenly risen. I am personally feeling that the world is less safe today because of this decision. There may well be a lot of charred white meat on the streets if the Philipines doesn't show it means business at home.
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Old 07-15-2004, 11:58 AM   #11
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I still haven't seen your evidence that pulling 48 people out of Iraq will lead to more deaths...
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Old 07-15-2004, 12:10 PM   #12
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If it bolsters the insurgents and adds credibility to their terrorist tactics, then more people will die.
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Old 07-15-2004, 12:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
If it bolsters the insurgents and adds credibility to their terrorist tactics, then more people will die.
Sorry but this same thing could be said about the whole war...invading Iraq without evidence, without UN support, and without being provoked all Osama had to do is turn to his men and say, "see I told you the US is evil and all they want to do is occupy our land, now who's with me?" I can't imagine the spike in recruitment...So if you want to talk about bolstering a terrorist credibility let's look at the big picture.
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Old 07-15-2004, 07:42 PM   #14
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I absolutely love how some people can assert with 100% certainty who ends up in hell. Forget about whether hell even exists, but hey, it'll be populated by Gloria Arroyo soon. LOL.

Nobody seems to care that the vast majority of Spaniards and Filipinos were against this war. In Spain, I believe 9 out of 10 people opposed the war, yet their leaders trampled all over the will of the people, and in many instances either bowed in to the pressure from the US or accepted some sort of perks to become members of the coalition. Spain and The Philippines, as countries did not believe in the war, did not believe in WMD (shocking!), did not want to go fight, did not want their people dying. This is an undeniable majority view and their leaders took a huge shit right over it. So you can say that the terrorists have won in some small way, but they did not change the minds of the people there. The bombing in Spain may have helped people decide to vote for the other party, but the people NEVER believed in the war in the first place!! You cannot make the ridiculous argument that they believed, but their opinions were changed. Same goes for the Filipinos - they disagreed, they didn't want their troops there and their leader is now pulling them out. Terrorists intervened, but remember that had Arroyo listened to the will of the people, they'd never have been there in the first place.

But forget about all that, it's Lucifer and his shiny pitchfork that matters in the end.

I suppose that the vast majority of the world who did not want to go to Iraq and is not sending troops today will also end up in hell. The party should be grand with all of us there.
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Old 07-15-2004, 10:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Sorry but this same thing could be said about the whole war...invading Iraq without evidence, without UN support, and without being provoked all Osama had to do is turn to his men and say, "see I told you the US is evil and all they want to do is occupy our land, now who's with me?" I can't imagine the spike in recruitment...So if you want to talk about bolstering a terrorist credibility let's look at the big picture.
If terrorist succeed in getting concessions from countries through their acts, it only creates the desire and opportunity to launch more terrorist strikes in order to get more concessions. To the terrorist, their actions are working and they are seeing the results they want.

Iraq was invaded by member states of the UN because Saddam failed to Verifiably disarm of all WMD. The only one required to prove anything was Saddam. Oh, and there are 3 UN resolutions, specifically resolutions 678, 687 and 1441 all of which approve of the use of military force against Saddam if he failed to comply. Unprovoked? Lets remember that it was Saddam who invaded Kuwait and attacked Saudi Arabia and Israel, and was required in the 1991 Gulf War Ceacefire agreement to verifiably disarm or face renewed military action to accomplish that goal.

As far as Al Quada goes, have they been able to launch more strikes since 9/11 than before? How many times has the United States been attacked by this massive new army of Al Quada personal since 9/11? Has the invasion of Iraq boosted Al Quada's ranks? No one knows for sure. Has the invasion of Iraq boosted specific Al Quada attacks so far? Definitely not.
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