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Old 12-14-2004, 11:50 AM   #61
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I don't agree with this at all. What Peterson did makes me feel sick to my stomach, but this makes me sick to my stomach too.

I'm not going to say anymore. I don't really want to criticise the views of others, and I just don't raelly want to ponder on this for too long or i'm going to get myself worked up.
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Old 12-14-2004, 11:51 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn
No, when you get falsely accused, you can still be tried, convicted and executed. So you don't even have to commit murder to get murdered by the state.
The possibility for a wrong verdict lies with all cases, not just death penalty ones.

Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn
BTW, proportionally more black accused get the death penalty (and especially when the victims are white) than do white accused (regardless of the rase of the victim).

From the ACLU website:
http://www.aclu.org/DeathPenalty/Dea...m?ID=9312&c=62

[/B]
There is so much statistical data required to come to that conclusion which is NOT mentioned in the report I'm not even going to comment on it.

I'd venture a guess that minorities are disproprtinately incarcerated for ALL types of violent crimes, not just the death penalty ones. And for the root caus eof that, I'll let you draw your own conclusions and make your own hypotheses. I doubt there is anything unique about death penalty cases making them inherently racist.

There have been gross miscarriages of justices for ALL colors, and that is onje of the many reasons I am personally against the death penalty for anyone.
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Old 12-14-2004, 11:59 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino
The possibility for a wrong verdict lies with all cases, not just death penalty ones.
True, but with a death penalty case you can't overturn the verdict when the wrongfully accused is executed. And even though it may be only a couple of overturned cases per year, those are a couple of grossly incompetent prior judgements too many.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:13 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn


True, but with a death penalty case you can't overturn the verdict when the wrongfully accused is executed. And even though it may be only a couple of overturned cases per year, those are a couple of grossly incompetent prior judgements too many.
Exactly. one of the reasons I am against the death penalty, I don't believe it's racist, but I do believe it's morally wrong, and extremely flawed.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:57 PM   #65
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the implementation of the death penalty is deeply racist, and the logic behind the death penalty is wrong as well.

for me, as i've said, i don't apply any idealism. i support methods of euthenasia, just as i am pro-choice and anti-death penalty. it is not upon me to make these decisions what a person does with his or her life, nor is it upon the state to do so.

with euthenasia, for me, the problem is involving the doctor in the taking of someone's life, not the actual fact that someone terminally ill wants to end their life. in abortion, i don't feel qualified to determine when life begins -- though the viability of the fetus might play into that -- but i feel a woman is 100% qualified to determine whether or not she can carry a pregnancy to term, and in the end, the morality of that decision is between her and her Maker. and when combined with the social costs of outlawing abortion -- coat hangers and such -- it's easy to be pro-choice. finally, i am against the death penalty not because i think it is wrong for Scott Peterson to be killed for his actions, but because i do not think a government -- anywhere -- can ensure that such a final punishment can ever be properly implemented. it doesn't make sense to prove that killing is wrong by killing someone, nor does it make sense to kill somone who's sentence might be overturned due to human incompetence. i don't see any benefit to the death penalty other than to over emotional people independent of the victim's family who think this is some sort of action movie and the killers need their just desserts.
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:28 PM   #66
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irvine511
[B]the implementation of the death penalty is deeply racist,

How so ?

I don't agree with the death penalty at all, but it's not on race grounds, as the people on death row are there for a reason, they have been found guilty of a serious violent crime, or series of crimes. If the # of death row inmates is disproportionately skewed towards a certain group of people, you need to ask why that is and not just assume it race. How do the proportions compare against say those doing life ? Those doing 20 years ?
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:33 PM   #67
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Wow, I agree with every word that Irvine said. The other thing about the death penalty that disturbs me is that I think sentences should be more remedial than punitive. If the death penalty were actually carried out quickly, that person, that soul, might never actually come to terms with what they've done. And since it's not carried out immediately, the scenario is no better--the person might in fact understand what they've done and feel remorse, and then they get to die anyway.
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:38 PM   #68
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I feels at odds with a system that will kill people that kill other people to show people that killing is wrong.

I can't even begin to wonder how Laci's family must have felt about hearing about her but I don't see how executing someone could somehow add up as justice. I think he should be in prision for the rest of his natural life but I have yet to see any society be ultimately for the better through the use of capital punishment. It doesn't deter any future atrocities or crimes.
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:47 PM   #69
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by cardosino
[B]
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


I don't agree with the death penalty at all, but it's not on race grounds, as the people on death row are there for a reason, they have been found guilty of a serious violent crime, or series of crimes. If the # of death row inmates is disproportionately skewed towards a certain group of people, you need to ask why that is and not just assume it race. How do the proportions compare against say those doing life ? Those doing 20 years ?

i don't have time to dig up the quotes, but i belive it's a fact that a white jury will sentence a black defendent to significantly longer sentences than a white defendent even when it's the same crime, and are much more likely to deliver a death sentence on a black person than a white person. these statistics are even more striking when you're dealing with a black man who has killed a white woman.

yes, blacks commit a higher percentage of crimes and violent crimes than their percentage of the population -- due to many, many, many different factors -- but they are also punished, on average, more severely than their white counterparts.

didn't we all read "a time to kill"?
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Old 12-14-2004, 02:04 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



i don't have time to dig up the quotes, but i belive it's a fact that a white jury will sentence a black defendent to significantly longer sentences than a white defendent even when it's the same crime,


Very rarely will you ever get an all white jury here in California, one of the places that is supposedly racist in their imlementation of the death penalty, and it's never the same crime as there are always different circumstances.

So basically it's racist only when it's an all-white jury and a black defendant ?


Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

yes, blacks commit a higher percentage of crimes and violent crimes than their percentage of the population -- due to many, many, many different factors -- but they are also punished, on average, more severely than their white counterparts.
I don't suppose anyone can actually publish irrefutable statistically sound data to prove this can they ? I'm open to it if they can.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


didn't we all read "a time to kill"?


Yes, I read "the chamber" too. Both works of fiction if I remember correctly.
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Old 12-14-2004, 02:15 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino



Very rarely will you ever get an all white jury here in California, one of the places that is supposedly racist in their imlementation of the death penalty, and it's never the same crime as there are always different circumstances.

So basically it's racist only when it's an all-white jury and a black defendant ?


on a national level, it is much easier to get all white juries, especially in the South where, until recently, you basically have a two-toned society. not so much anymore, but historically this has been the case.

i'd also speculate, and again, don't have time to do the research, that almost any all-white jury would be, on average, harsher on a non-white defendent than a white defendent.

as i've said, i can't cite these things off the top of my head, but this is one fact that anti-death penalty activists will return to again-and-again-and-again. i'm certain there's plenty of research on it.
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Old 12-14-2004, 02:24 PM   #72
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In VA, there are a higher number of black dudes on death row because honestly, they did more things to be put there. Virginia's inner cities have a high black population, a high black on black crime rate, and a lot of drugs. They may all be on death row, but whenever there are executions they always make sure that just as many white dudes get it too. They always show the guy's picture on the news and it seems like a mix of both to me.They might even put white dudes ahead of some black dudes to stop cries of racism. But really, no matter what color they are, they got there by doing what they did. I don't even think women should be spared. That bitch Susan Smith who drowned her kids and lied and said a carjacker did it is just as bad as Peterson.
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Old 12-14-2004, 02:40 PM   #73
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good arguments are not made from raw emotion and cursory observations.
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Old 12-14-2004, 02:49 PM   #74
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Old 12-14-2004, 02:59 PM   #75
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My problem with capital punishment is that it's ireversable. You can let someone out of prison and throw away their police record, but you can't bring back the dead.
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