PETA comapres raising animals for food to the Holocaust - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

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Old 03-04-2003, 11:58 PM   #31
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Now... I'm sure some of you know/have read my feelings about Nazis and the Holocaust..... and that is basically that I feel strongly that things should not be compared to such events.

People and animals are all living creatures, and what PETA is attempting to point out is that they all deserve to have the same rights. Ethically, and morally, I can't argue with their mission statement.... and to say you're going to go buy/wear fur and eat meat just to spite PETA is pathetically immature and neanderthal like.



Yes, yes...we all know how you feel about Nazis and the Holocaust. But do you personally know anyone who suffered in the Holocaust, who watched the armies raid her family farm, steal her land, who together with her husband and two small children were forced into concentration camps, who died only years ago with numbers still showing on her arm? It is for my sweet "Pani" that I'll buy the fur, eat the steak and ignore your pathetic comment.
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Old 03-05-2003, 12:03 AM   #32
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Through recent studies and reading I have come to the conclusion that beef really doesn't need to be part of my diet. The way it is processed is so disgusting - I'm not even talking about animal cruelty, but human cruelty; we shouldn't have to eat meat that literally has shit in it. I'm boycotting ground beef, and one of these days, I hope to say adios to all forms of it.

Poultry also worries me because of the hormones.

Thankfully, I love fish.
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Old 03-05-2003, 01:18 AM   #33
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Originally posted by Like O2




Yes, yes...we all know how you feel about Nazis and the Holocaust. But do you personally know anyone who suffered in the Holocaust, who watched the armies raid her family farm, steal her land, who together with her husband and two small children were forced into concentration camps, who died only years ago with numbers still showing on her arm? It is for my sweet "Pani" that I'll buy the fur, eat the steak and ignore your pathetic comment.
DO I KNOW ANYONE....?

Oh dear Like O2, how you are barking up the WRONG tree. I had plenty of family slaughtered by the Nazis, not to mention many relatives that had numbers on their arms and survived. Thanks for asking.

So what pathetic comment of mine are you ignoring?


And what does buying fur and eating steak have anything to do with 'Pani', and how does it relate to the human and animal condition?
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Old 03-05-2003, 01:19 AM   #34
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call me immature... call me a neanderthal... call me pathetic...

i love my animals, and even this registered republican finds hunting for nothing but the sport of it to be wrong... charlton heston and his n.r.a. junkies are no friends of mine...

but to compare the people who died in the Holocaust to cows and chickens is one of the most sickening, disgusting things i have ever seen. i am not a jew myself. but i grew up on long island, and the highest concentration of jews in america is in the new york metro area. my three best friends are jewish. two of them had relatives who died in the Holocaust. try telling them that their grandmothers and grandfathers were no better than chickens, or cows, or pigs. i applaud that kid who was arrested, i believe in california, for tearing down one of these ads. and if these people show up at a campus near me, i damn sure will be there to protest. and the next time i eat a steak? i'm gonna be proud to bite the out of it. if that makes me an immature and pathetic neanderthal, then so be it.
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Old 03-05-2003, 01:31 AM   #35
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I can't stand it when someone compares ANYTHING to the Holocaust. There is absolutely no comparing what happened to the Jewish people during that time. Comparing farm animals to people who were slaughtered by the Nazi's is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. Those 6 million people, along with their descendents, could have gone on to do great things in this world had they been given the chance. I don't think a farm animal can find the cure for cancer.

My German/Russian family was already in America by the time their towns were invaded. Had they not have been here, I wouldn't exist. I loose all respect for PETA, if I had any to begin with, for making such an idiotic comparision.

I've been a vegetarian since I was 14 years old (15 years this April) For me it's not an animal rights thing. It was all about just the idea of eating an animal grossed me out enough to not want to ever eat it again. As a vegetarian, I would never want to be a part of an organization like PETA, especially after such a comparision.
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Old 03-05-2003, 01:50 AM   #36
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It cannot be compared to the holocaust for the simple fact alone that livestock are killed for food and the Jews were killed out of hatred and sadism. They're different without even bringing up whether or not an animal life is comprable to a human life.
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Old 03-05-2003, 02:00 AM   #37
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like, arw9797, i'm also a vegetarian. i can't actually imagine what a steak would taste like since i haven't eaten meat for a long enough time. like headache, i don't think that hunting for sport is right.

i tend to lean quite towards the "left" in my views (i originally registered with the f-ing GREEN party) regarding issues of this nature, but i can't agree with PETA. it's the kind of thing where it sounds like a good idea in theory, when it's down on paper. but once you put it into practise it all falls apart. you get an organisation that isn't actually doing any good, and offending people who would normally support animal rights sort of issues. by "support animal rights issues" i mean support more free-range farms and less of the massive corporate farms where the cattle or chickens are more or less being fed the byproducts of other cows and chickenes. i don't mean abolishing the consumption of meat all togehter.

i'm not jewish. one of my grandmother's oldest (and by oldest i mean one that she's known the longest) friends survived the holocaust. i know she'd be very offended by the comparrison.
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Old 03-05-2003, 02:52 AM   #38
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Please change the title of this thread



Does anyone even look at the whole picture anymore before they jump on the oh-my-god look at that horrific correlation bandwagon?

Did anyone even read the entire news article or did everyone just freak when the word Holocaust or Nazi was uttered? Try and shelve your righteous indignation for a sec and take stock of what PETA actually did.

PETA simply carried forth a message from a stauch JEWISH vegetarian, survivor of Nazi-occupied Poland, esteemed author, secular and religious historian AND Nobel Peace Laureate I might add.

His name is Isaac Bashevis Singer.

Here are some quotes in case your search engine fails you:

"As often as Herman had witnessed the slaughter of animals and fish, he always had the same thought: In their behavior toward creatures, all men were Nazis. The smugness with which man could do with other species as he pleased exemplified the most extreme racist theories, the principle that might is right." - Enemies, A Love Story

In his thoughts, Herman spoke a eulogy for the mouse who had shared a portion of her life with him and who, because of him, had left this earth "What do they know - all these scholars, all these philosophers, all the leaders of the world - about such as you? They have convinced themselves that man, the worst transgressor of all the species, is the crown of creation. All other creatures were created merely to provide him with food, pelts, to be tormented, exterminated. In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka." - "The Letter Writer" from The Seance and Other Stories


NOTE: Treblinka was a Nazi death camp in Poland. Singer believed the Nazis got their ideas for the camps from animal slaughterhouses.

So it was NOT PETA that drew these comparisons, it was a Jewish survivor of the Nazi Holocaust.

While these were stories that he wrote, many felt that he was indoctrinating them with his own views on the consumption of animals for food. Indeed, the man stuck by these views in his own life and even said that he would tell God to his face that he disagreed if God told him that vegetarianism was wrong.

Feel free to counter with any factual information you can find or play the 'yeah but he was a bad whatever' game, but the inescapable fact is that it is he who originated this theory, not PETA.



Now, if you'd like to debate the appropriateness of PETAs using his analogies for their campaign for something he very vocally, publicly and firmly believed in, that's up to you, he's dead so he won't be able to clarify what he meant. But I think it's pretty plain.

Their biggest blunder was probably in trying to get a collective Jewish community to sign onto the campaign, as there would be meat-eaters in the group who would probably not want to align themselves with it. Come to think of it, for that matter, there are probably Jewish PETA members for all we know?!

*NOTE: I am not a vegetarian nor do I necessarily subscribe to his or PETAs views. NO TO PELTING FOR FUR COATS THO!
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Old 03-05-2003, 03:07 AM   #39
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i did read the whole article, i also read the whole thread; i posted having read everyone's replies and the article first.
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Old 03-05-2003, 03:07 AM   #40
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I could care less who said what, really. I dont know the man. I dont care if he's a survivor, i dont agree with him. I dont agree with PETA for voicing his words in a campaign that links the holacost and animals. PETA, though not coming up with the orignale idea, has voiced it and that has made it seem to people that it is their idea. They should have relized this. If they are such a powerful group they would have marketers that would foresee what would happen.

On a sidenote. I have a Prof who is a HUGE animal activist. She;s been put in jail for through paint at people with fur, dragged out of city hall twice and parliment. She in my opinion is a nut. But one day she came into class with a TV, we thought it was a video on our subject, communications. She turned it on and it was a video on how animals are treated badly. I and another of my friends asked why we were watching this. SHe said to just watch. I said that this has nothing to do with our subject and i was going to leave, she said if i left she would dock 5% of my final mark. I got up and left, seven more followed. We were informed that we were going to lose 5% the next day. I didnt protest to her but went to the Dean with the others and we had a meeting and it was agreed that she could never show movie like this again. I got a 3/30 on my report, i was the only one to fail, i am a honor stundent. Well i can end my rant now.
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Old 03-05-2003, 03:15 AM   #41
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Sooo...we are to assume that you are making an unbiased comment now? -->Bonoman






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Old 03-05-2003, 03:29 AM   #42
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I know. It just pisses me off. I am always unbiased. HA
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Old 03-05-2003, 06:11 AM   #43
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I'm a vegeterian myself, and will probably go vegan soon. I've chosen not to eat meat out of ethic reasons. I don't really know anything about this PETA organisation, since I live in Sweden, and we have other animal rights-organisations.
This comparision is pretty, let's say extreme, but I do not find it offending. I'm not questioning the suffering of the Jews during WWII at all, I'm an active anti-nazist and I participate in lots of demonstrations and I've visited Auschwitz and Birkenau, and I've talked with several survivors.
It's a fact that millions of animals are being slaughtered in horrible factorys each year. Even if you think it's not comparable to the holocaust, how can you actually defend it? admit that you are a hypocrite, at least.
we are all citizens of this world. I understand if you feel mankind are a bit more valueable than animals, but that doesn't mean we have the right to breed and slaughter them.


Bonoman - If you eat meat and support the system, I don't see why you can't sit and watch how they are treated?
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Old 03-05-2003, 07:53 AM   #44
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The exhibit isn't by ANY means saying that humans are no better than animals. It's pointing out that that's exactly how the Nazis felt and that the idea of concentration camps were based on the treatment and housing of livestock.

“[A]s long as human beings will go on shedding the blood of animals, there will never be any peace. There is only one little step from killing animals to creating gas chambers à la Hitler and concentration camps à la Stalin. … There will be no justice as long as man will stand with a knife or with a gun and destroy those who are weaker than he is.”
—Isaac Bashevis Singer

“I believe that, as long as man tortures and kills animals, he will torture and kill humans as well—and wars will be waged—for killing must be practiced and learned in a small scale, inwardly and outwardly. As long as animals are confined in cages, there will be prisons as well—for incarceration must be practiced and learned, in a small scale, inwardly and outwardly. As long as there are animal slaves, there will be human slaves as well—for slavery must be learned and practiced, on a small scale—inwardly and outwardly.”
—Edgar Kupfer-Koberwitz, author, vegan, and animal advocate who was imprisoned in the Dachau concentration camp from 1940 to 1945

As for there being no comparison to the Holocaust, what about all the other genocides and atrocities that have happened in the twentieth century and those going on right NOW? How are they not comparable? I'm not downplaying the horrificness of the Holocaust, but I don't think ANYTHING should be immune to analyzation and discussion. I'm not referring to this board at all or Elvis's views regarding the Holocaust, but to the fact that I think Western culture needs to look at why the idea of the Holocaust is so unbearable to us, but other genocides are largely ignored and allowed to continue.
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Old 03-05-2003, 09:12 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2FReAk
Bonoman - If you eat meat and support the system, I don't see why you can't sit and watch how they are treated?
Yes, this is indeed where the hypocrisy comes in. I myself belong to probably 95% of the meat eating population who eats meat, but doesn't want to kill them themselves, or even watch them being killed.
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