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Old 06-13-2008, 06:47 PM   #1
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People got the power - Irish voters say NO to Eurofederalist treaty

Irish voters reject EU treaty | World news | guardian.co.uk

I can honestly say, never have I been so proud to be Irish.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/politic...es-have-it.htm
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:24 PM   #2
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I wanna buy you guys a pint, you have liberated the people of Europe from a almost certain hell.

Why cant Brussels get it into their thick heads, we dont want this dictatorship.
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:40 PM   #3
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There's something special about island nations. Gives you a certain perspective on things, a more independent one perhaps.

Britain and Ireland have always had a lot in common.

When I saw a Sinn Fein supporter quote, with approval, a speech of Thatcher's the other day, I knew something important was about to happen .
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:43 PM   #4
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According to some reports the treaty can still be ratified but i was always under the impression that if one nation ( NOT STATE) rejected it was dead in the water.
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:51 PM   #5
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I would be curious if all of your apparent hatred for the EU means that you would prefer for your nation to pull out completely from the EU (meaning you lose both the burdens and benefits of the EU), or if you are more interested in a revised role for the EU.

Just curious. I'm not terribly familiar with anti-EU ideology.
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:56 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by melon View Post
I would be curious if all of your apparent hatred for the EU means that you would prefer for your nation to pull out completely from the EU (meaning you lose both the burdens and benefits of the EU), or if you are more interested in a revised role for the EU.

Just curious. I'm not terribly familiar with anti-EU ideology.
i think this is more about being against something (even though I have no idea against what exactly) than being in favour of anything

could be mistaken though
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:58 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by melon View Post
I would be curious if all of your apparent hatred for the EU means that you would prefer for your nation to pull out completely from the EU (meaning you lose both the burdens and benefits of the EU), or if you are more interested in a revised role for the EU.

Just curious. I'm not terribly familiar with anti-EU ideology.
Who is this addressed to? Me? I don't hate the EU. I'm against EUROFEDERALISM.
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:06 PM   #8
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Who is this addressed to? Me? I don't hate the EU. I'm against EUROFEDERALISM.
Please elaborate then. I am not familiar with the circumstances and history behind this.
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:19 PM   #9
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I think it be foolish to withdraw from the EU entirely but this EU superstate facination has got to stop.

Also im not too happy with the free movement within the EU, I know of one instance in Ireland where in a company 80% of workers are Polish and they havent hired a single Irish person in over 3 years. This is simply because 1. the polish are more than happy to work for peanuts 2. the Irish worker has mortgages and other pills to pay for not including a family to support. With a recession looming and every Euro/pound squeezed to the max its not the best of times to be taking a paycut just to stay in employment

The same situation is rife all over the UK too. The British government didnt expect such an influx of poles and other east Europeans when the EU expanded, they predicted only around 50,000 and that turned into 800,000 - 1,000,000 +
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:24 PM   #10
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I'd be interested in hearing more about this. I'd only followed the tax-related bits out of personal interest, but there seems to be more passion on this thread than anti-harmonization would warrant, I'd think. So whatever you guys can add about your thoughts would be great.
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:32 PM   #11
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Also im not too happy with the free movement within the EU, I know of one instance in Ireland where in a company 80% of workers are Polish and they havent hired a single Irish person in over 3 years. This is simply because 1. the polish are more than happy to work for peanuts 2. the Irish worker has mortgages and other pills to pay for not including a family to support. With a recession looming and every Euro/pound squeezed to the max its not the best of times to be taking a paycut just to stay in employment
Despite the subtle whiff of racism from your post I'll bother replying to this.

1. Do the Polish people here not have rent/mortages to pay or families to support too?
2. If the wages were higher do you really think many more Irish people would be doing these jobs? Maybe the Polish have no choice but to "work for peanuts".
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:39 PM   #12
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Despite the subtle whiff of racism from your post I'll bother replying to this.

1. Do the Polish people here not have rent/mortages to pay or families to support too?
2. If the wages were higher do you really think many more Irish people would be doing these jobs? Maybe the Polish have no choice but to "work for peanuts".
I wondered about that myself. I mean if the Polish workers don't live in Ireland then they must have one hell of a commute....
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:43 PM   #13
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I'd be interested in hearing more about this. I'd only followed the tax-related bits out of personal interest, but there seems to be more passion on this thread than anti-harmonization would warrant, I'd think. So whatever you guys can add about your thoughts would be great.
Well, look at this way. Would you want Canada to join the US, and have your parliament and executive reporting to Washington? Because ultimately, in my opinion, that it what we dealing with here.
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:46 PM   #14
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Because ultimately, in my opinion, that it what we dealing with here.
ultimately, in your opinion ........... yes

now if you could tell me what this opinion is based on then maybe we would have something real to talk about
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:47 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Lara Mullen View Post
Despite the subtle whiff of racism from your post I'll bother replying to this.

1. Do the Polish people here not have rent/mortages to pay or families to support too?
2. If the wages were higher do you really think many more Irish people would be doing these jobs? Maybe the Polish have no choice but to "work for peanuts".
This is the reason why the public cant have a debate on the topic, because you are automatically accused of racism.

A lot of these workers get support from the government to get adjusted, this includes payment of accommodation for a peroid of time along with any bills and you dont honestly think someone who has just come from eastern Europe could honestly afford a mortage in the UK ? I know this is fact because i myself have worked with these people. They work hard and long but ultimately they are driving the wages down. Polish folk come here because they can easily earn treble what they would at home. I have no problem with Eastern Europeans, its more the free movement act and the long term effect such policy will have on the economy.
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