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Old 05-05-2003, 06:45 PM   #31
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once again i repeat what i said earlier... I feel sorry for anyone who would just not be a fan of something, not attend a concert, event, etc. just because they didn't believe in the same politics as the person performing.

And at the same time you bash the people chanting USA for being close-minded...
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Old 05-05-2003, 08:02 PM   #32
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BonoVoxSupastar,

If you read my posts, you''ll see I was responding to SHARKY's comments about the recent war in Iraq and Bin Ladin in this thread. I think you''ll agree that US soldiers have everything to do with those two things.
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Old 05-05-2003, 09:44 PM   #33
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
once again i repeat what i said earlier... I feel sorry for anyone who would just not be a fan of something, not attend a concert, event, etc. just because they didn't believe in the same politics as the person performing.

And at the same time you bash the people chanting USA for being close-minded...
I'm not following you here....

The art reflects the artist, as you can read in my post about Steel Pulse. Why would I listen to lyrics that offend me? I don't listen to white power hate bands for the same reason. You can feel sorry for me if that's what makes you feel better about the choices you make, but I don't like to give my monetary support to bands and artists that I find offensive.
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Old 05-05-2003, 09:49 PM   #34
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Just out of curiosity, would you only stop listening to Pearl Jam if they actually expressed pro-life views in their music, or just if one of their members were to state that they were pro-life in an interview? Not that I can ever imagine that happening, of course.
To be completely honest here, I don't listen to that much Pearl Jam anyway. I never got into them in their heyday, and now it may be too late for me. But to answer your question, I think it those views would have to start to be reflected in the art. If it wasn't in the lyrics, I don't think it would bother me as much.

I don't listen to Ted Nugent because he's such a dick. (And because his music sucks out loud, so it's not that much of a sacrifice. )
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Old 05-05-2003, 10:13 PM   #35
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I wasn't saying you shouldn't be a fan, but you should at least be aware of what you are going to get at a Pearl Jam show. If you disagree with Eddie's politics, that's fine. But you have to at least expect that you may be in the minority. It reminds me of the Elevation shows when people cheered the Charles Heston video. Are they saying they disagree with U2's position? That's fine, but they had to be aware that U2 would take a position like that based on their past non-violent stance.

As for cheering at baseball games, Sting, I would have no problem cheering any soldier that walked in to that stadium. But people weren't cheering a soldier. They were cheering the president's particular stance in Iraq -- despite the fact that there are still soldiers in my subway stops and on my streets. The city has been at Level Orange since the color coding system started. How is stirring up anti-American feelings in the Middle East and not catching a terrorist supposed to make me feel safe? Why did we use those bombs on Iraq instead of bin Laden?

Sting, you may be right. I may be too obsessed with bin Laden, but I can also still taste the Trade Center in my mouth as I outran the collapse of the south tower. My city was destroyed, my life was turned upside down -- all because of bin Laden. I think its understandable if I'm obsessed with catching the guy.
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Old 05-06-2003, 01:24 AM   #36
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Originally posted by martha
I don't listen to Ted Nugent because he's such a dick.
At least he eats what he kills
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Old 05-06-2003, 12:06 PM   #37
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Originally posted by sharky

As for cheering at baseball games, Sting, I would have no problem cheering any soldier that walked in to that stadium. But people weren't cheering a soldier. They were cheering the president's particular stance in Iraq -- despite the fact that there are still soldiers in my subway stops and on my streets. The city has been at Level Orange since the color coding system started. How is stirring up anti-American feelings in the Middle East and not catching a terrorist supposed to make me feel safe? Why did we use those bombs on Iraq instead of bin Laden?

Sting, you may be right. I may be too obsessed with bin Laden, but I can also still taste the Trade Center in my mouth as I outran the collapse of the south tower. My city was destroyed, my life was turned upside down -- all because of bin Laden. I think its understandable if I'm obsessed with catching the guy.
I'm going to take issue with a few of your statements here. I like the fact that when I walk up the stairs at Penn the first thing I see is an armed National Guardsman. I feel safe when I take the Throgs Neck and see police and National Guardsmen doing random searches of vans and trucks. All these things give me reason to cheer the President, because at least I finally see something going on, some sort of extra security to protect me. Is it 100% fool proof? Of course not. But it's a start in the right direction. Even if Bin Laden was caught. Even if he was dead... which he may be already, that does not mean that the threat is over. America got a big punch in the mouth, and instead of sitting back and taking it, we're taking it to the people who delivered it, their friends, their allies, and those who sympathize and support them. Was Saddam directly involved in 9/11? Most likely no. Does he sympatize with the terrorists, provide support to various terror groups, and would he, given the chance, have given more than just money to these groups? You're damn right he would have. So rather than sit around and wait for the next attack to happen, we have a President who's proactively going after the people who may attack us before they get that chance. That is reason for a stadium full of New Yorkers to cheer the President at Yankee Stadium. That is reason for a room full of New Yorkers to booo Eddie Vedder at the Nassau Coliseum.
We're still not out of the woods. The next terror attack could come today, tommorow, next year, or never. But I feel a lot better knowing that we have someone going after these people, Al Qaeda and others, before they get a chance to hit us again, then I would if we had someone who was going to wait for an attack and then lob a couple of cruise missiles at a pharmacutical plant, that's for damn sure.
And one more thing... all of us in New York had our lifes turned upside down by what happened. That is without doubt. But while a few buildings may have been destroyed, and thousands of innocent lives lost for no reason, New York City is most deffinetly still alive and well. We may not agree on politics, but I think we can all agree on that.
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Old 05-06-2003, 02:52 PM   #38
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A quick two cents: I doubt there would have been much flak over Bu$hleaguer if the performances did not include Eddie's theatrics with the Bush mask. I think that is what has caused most of the negative reaction. Most PJ fans know Ed's stance on Dubya, and if the song were included in the setlist without the mask, I doubt there would be a large outcry.
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Old 05-06-2003, 04:07 PM   #39
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New York indeed rocks! Still wouldn't live anywhere else right now. I guess where you see safety I get unnerved. Why should I have to still walk around my city with guys with big guns? If we got bin Laden, I don't think we would still need to be on this heightened state. If we got bin Laden, I would be cheering at Yankee Stadium too. But it still doesn't change this issue: where is bin Laden and what proof do we have that Saddam supported bin Laden?

As for Eddie, maybe he is going over the line but I think there is a difference between someone who understands it and someone who doesn't. Remember all the deer caught in headlight looks when Charlton Heston and bono's rant during BTBS came up? Let's cheer Moses! same thing. people didn't understand the meaning behind it.
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Old 05-06-2003, 09:10 PM   #40
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


I like the fact that when I walk up the stairs at Penn the first thing I see is an armed National Guardsman. I feel safe when I take the Throgs Neck and see police and National Guardsmen doing random searches of vans and trucks.
Not me. I hate having to live like the Peruvians I saw when I was there in 1986. Soldiers with flak jackets on, packing two or three guns, curfews from dawn to dusk, shoot and ask in that order. I hate having to live like the Londoners I saw in 1977. Scared shitless of every unattended package being an IRA bomb.

I don't cheer the president for fostering such fear. It makes people accept the policies that lead to unconstitutional searches and spying. We're creating more pissed off people with damn near every move we make overseas, guaranteeing that people who like to be randomly searched will get their wishes from now on.

Nope, I like a fear-free life, one led by fairness in other countries and a respect here at home for my rights as American.
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Old 05-06-2003, 09:11 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


At least he eats what he kills
True.


But he's still a dick.
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Old 05-06-2003, 09:56 PM   #42
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so let's go back to doing nothing like in the clinton administration... the pre 9/11 approach to things worked soooooooooo well.
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Old 05-07-2003, 12:10 AM   #43
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so let's go back to doing nothing like in the clinton administration... the pre 9/11 approach to things worked soooooooooo well.

Nice dodge.
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Old 05-07-2003, 12:31 PM   #44
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thank you
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Old 05-07-2003, 12:40 PM   #45
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i don't live in fear. i'm aware that at any time, someone could try to attack the city again, but that does not stop me from taking the bridge and tunnels, going to landmarks, mass gatherings, sporting events, mass transit, etc. etc. right after 9/11, everyone was yelling about what an intelligence failure it was, on how the government should have had an idea, and at the very least warned us at what might happen. so now we have a color system, based on intelligence information, that does give us a general idea of what might be going on. so now what? now everyone is complaining that the government is making us live in fear. what do you want? is waiting an extra 5 minutes at the midtown tunnel as the nypd inspects a truck in front of me really such a big deal? is showing up an hour earlier for a flight really such a hard thing to ask? is getting "wanded" as i walk in to a sporting venue for a game or a concert really an invasion of my privacy? the answer to all these questions is a resounding no. so what's wrong? what do you want? this is not peru in 1986. there are no curfews installed on us. there are just some minor inconveniences that in the grand scheme of things really do not effect our day-to-day lives at all. all they do is provide a little extra safety. now how is that a bad thing?
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