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Old 10-18-2003, 02:56 PM   #46
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Peace = Chance to Regroup and Claim Victory

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Hey I was asking a question. At the time I couldn't find any information on how it was recieved. I'm extremely dissappointed that it was recieved this way, but I'm still not going to judge the religion as one of violence. I know too many Muslims that prove otherwise to do that. Maybe I'm just an optimist.
I'm not going to judge every Moslem on the planet just because of this one speech. Yes, it was made in the biggest Islamic forum on the planet. I personally know of Moslems who don't share these anti-Semitic sentiments and are hurt and embarrassed by this stuff.
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Old 10-18-2003, 03:07 PM   #47
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I do not hate anyone because of their religion nor am I judging people because of their religion. I have muslim friends, students, and collegues that are not representative of this thread.
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Old 10-18-2003, 04:35 PM   #48
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I understand Dread. Peace.
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Old 10-18-2003, 05:45 PM   #49
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This underscores why it is important to understand other religions and the tenets of their beliefs.
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Old 10-18-2003, 07:30 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
This underscores why it is important to understand other religions and the tenets of their beliefs.
Absolutely. We can't have peace with these people unless we understand their religion. We must have peace with them.
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Old 10-19-2003, 08:55 AM   #51
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Speaking of understanding others religious beliefs. The leader of the Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party and spiritual advisor the the PAS had this to say:

[Q]“I don’t think Dr Mahathir is anti-Jew but he is against their attitude. This is in line with Islamic teachings. Any human being, regardless of race, who follows the attitude of the Jews, must be opposed by Muslims.”

“Since the era of Prophet Muhammad, they have always created all sorts of problems for the international community and all the problems are caused by their attitude.”[/Q]

To summarize We don't hate the Jews is just their stinking attitude and anyone who has that attitude will be opposed.


What attitude is that?http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story...294&sec=nation
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Old 10-19-2003, 11:20 AM   #52
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Some people need to shut their mouths and read some books. They'd do themselves some good if they stopped mouthing off this anti-Semitic .
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Old 10-19-2003, 02:20 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
[Q]
He says it’s unfortunate that his key message to stop all violence, suicide bombings and massive retaliation in the Middle East was not highlighted.
[/Q]
No, My Dear Dr,,,,Your message was not to stop for the sake of peace. You made reference to a period of history, that Yassar Arrafat happens to make reference to when he signs treaties as well. It is CODE to the muslim world that you are not seeking peace, but a temporary cease fire until the time is right for you to strike. This is the historical account that you referenced in your so called argument for peace.

[Q]The Event

The sources tell of tensions between Muhammad and the grandees of the
Quraysh tribe who controlled Mecca, his home city. The Quraysh leaders
viewed the upstart prophet as a direct threat to their interests for his
monotheistic message undermined Mecca's status as a pilgrimage destination
for followers of the polytheistic Arabian religions. Tensions between
Quraysh and the nascent Muslim community eventually forced Muhammad to flee
the city in 622 c.e., when he found refuge in Medina, a town to the north of
Mecca. By 628, Muhammad had built enough strength in Medina to challenge the
Quraysh and possibly to vanquish them and take their city; instead, he
reached an agreement with them. Named the Treaty of Hudaybiya after the town
where it was signed, this pact disappointed many of the Muslims, who were
spoiling for a fight. The treaty held that the two sides

agreed to remove war from the people for ten years. During this time the
people are to be security and no one is to lay hands on another. . . .
Between us evil is to be abstained from, and there is to be no raiding or
spoilation.

In the twenty-two months after signing the treaty, Muhammad significantly
built up his power base. He made new conquests and formed alliances with
powerful tribes, in particular with the Bani Khuza`a. As a result, by 630,
he was considerably stronger vis-à-vis Quraysh than at the time of the
signing. Quraysh did less well in terms of making new alliances, but it did
ally with another strong tribe, the Bani Bakr.

Now, the Bani Khuza`a and the Bani Bakr lived near each other and had a long
history of feuding-and feuding in Arabia, as in Appalachia, was passed on
from generation to generation. In December 629, some of the Bani Bakr,
possibly with Quraysh help, took vengeance on a party of the Bani Khuza`a,
killing several of the latter. On hearing this news, Muhammad instantly
opted for the most drastic response - to attack Mecca. It appears that he
had decided the time had come to challenge the ultimate power base of
Quraysh in their home city.

In response, Quraysh sent a delegation to Muhammad, petitioning him to
maintain the treaty, and offering (as was the Arabian fashion) material
compensation for the lives of the dead men. Muhammad, however, had no
interest in a compromise and rejected all Quraysh entreaties. In an act of
desperation, Abu Sufyan, leader of the Quraysh delegation, went to the
mosque in Medina and proclaimed, "O people, I guarantee protection for all!"
To this, Muhammad dryly replied, "You say this, O Abu Sufyan, not any one of
us."

Muhammad had already made quiet preparations for an assault on Quraysh. This
meant once the desultory negotiations ended, he was ready in short order to
advance with a huge force on Mecca. So impressive was his army that the
Meccans made no effort to resist it. Instead, they surrendered their city
without a fight in January 630. And so ended the Hudaybiya incident.[/Q]
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Old 10-19-2003, 11:09 PM   #54
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Interesting quote. Given the statement "Muhammad was a terrorist" is inflamatory, based on the above quote, I wonder if there is any kernal of truth to the statement?
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Old 10-20-2003, 08:11 AM   #55
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NCB,

Perhaps there is, but I think we'd do best to be very careful with that label; a "kernal" of truth to Muhammad's military exploits isn't enough. Was Caesar a terrorist? Napoleon? Militarism and tribal warfare, especially over land, was really the order of the day, just like medieval Europe.

(LOL--the more things change....)

SD
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Old 10-20-2003, 08:48 AM   #56
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I do not agree with the terrorist label either. That was not my intended point.

When talking about peace, arab leadership refers to this period in history. To me it means, that what we think of as peace a lasting peace, is not possible culturally, when they are referring to this as their model for peace.

Does that make sense?
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Old 10-20-2003, 11:44 AM   #57
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Peaceful Moslems use Mohammed's story to point out that Islam only allows killing in self defense. Thus, terrorists aren't practicing Islam with their terrorist activities. "They are terrorists, not Moslems" in the words of a Moroccan Moslem scholar.
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Old 10-21-2003, 12:01 PM   #58
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Mahathir Digs the Hole Even Deeper

From the Bangkok Post

Quote:
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad says his comments about Jews during a speech at an Islamic summit last week, which prompted harsh criticism in the West, had been taken out of context.

``In my speech I condemned all violence, even the suicide bombings, and I told the Muslims it's about time we stopped all these things and paused to think and do something that is much more productive. That was the whole tone of my speech, but they picked up one sentence where I said that the Jews control the world,'' he told Bangkok Post in an exclusive interview yesterday, which covered aspects of his 22 years as leader of Malaysia, as well as his straight-forward views on terrorism, democracy and US policy.

Dr Mahathir added, however, that ``the reaction of the world shows that they [Jews] do control the world''.

During a speech at the Organisation of Islamic Conference in Malaysia last week, Dr Mahathir said Jewish people, because of their ties with the United States, had an influence in the world which far outweighed their numbers.

``It cannot be that there is no other way; 1.3 billion Muslims cannot be defeated by a few million Jews,'' he said.

The United States, Israel, Australia and the European Union have accused Dr Mahathir of anti-Semitism.

Dr Mahathir said the Americans and Europeans were out to condemn him.

The European Union had done nothing when Italian Prime Minister Silvio Burlesconi made a statement calling Muslims terrorists.

``Did the European Union pass a resolution to say that this was against Muslims? Why is it that when people condemn Muslims the European Union does not try to say anything?''

Dr Mahathir said his comments about Israel and Jews were true.

``Israel is a small country. There are not many Jews in the world. But they are so arrogant that they defy the whole world. Even if the United Nations say no, they go ahead. Why? Because they have the backing of all these people.''

Dr Mahathir said that in his speech he urged Israelis and Arabs to stop the killing and to think, pause and settle.

``I even quoted from the Koran, which says that when the enemy offers to make peace you must accept. I told the Muslims you must accept even if the terms are bad. You have to negotiate. This is the teaching of Islam. All that was in my speech... But those things were blacked out,'' he said.
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Old 10-21-2003, 12:24 PM   #59
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They shouldn't have cut Burlescone any slack with that anti-Islamic remark. Blanket statements about any one religious group or nationality or whatever are unacceptable, whether it be Moslems, Jews, or whoever.
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Old 10-21-2003, 01:28 PM   #60
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My only comment is that he spoke about peace in a historical context, one in which Mohammad bided his time, grew stronger, waited for his enemy to make a mistake and then conquered. That is the PEACE he is advocating.
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