Peace?

[hiphop]

'Some' shouldnt have the power that they do.

They shouldn?t. Does this imply we should take the power out of the hands of `some`, but not by using force?

Go, MLK, go!

 

[gvox]

Elvis,

Some are educated in WAR and seem to long for it.

Elvis the article you posted...I can't freakin believe that some on here have the gall to insist that the US doesn't use weapons of mass destruction.

If 300-400 cruise missiles doesn't qualify for WMD status, I don't see how ANYTHING Saddam could or wants to possess could come even close.

PEACE for mankind's sake.

G

 

[Scarletwine]

Greed isn't the only barrier to peace. Pride and Ego are also barriers, whether it be National or personal. This is where "the some" have the most problems.

 

[STING2]

Hiphop,

I did not say the police and the military were exactly the same. But they have many similarities as I have already demonstrated.

Plus, there are countries in the world where there is not jurisprudence but they certainly have police. Your stuck upon a rigid definition of what defines "police". I define police as any organization who's sole responsibility is domestic security. Yes, sometimes that does include the military in some countries. My point though is that there are domestic and international security needs for any country and providing for both involves actions and organizations that are often very similar in certain ways.

 

[sharky]

Elvis, teaching peace is a great concept but its not possible. Schools in Saudi Arabia teach that Jews are inferior. The Palestineans fight against the Israelis, the Catholics fight against the Protestants. The KKK thinks that a peaceful world is a caucasian world.

Whose peace is right? Your idea of peace? My idea of peace? Because peace is a relative word.

There is racism, there is sexism, there is bigotry in this country. There is no definition for peace in the real world that we live in.

 

[Rono]

Are the people madmen ore hero`s ?

www.humanshields.org

They believe in peace,....

 

[melon]

I think they're suicidal.

Melon

 

[Screaming Flower]

that's insane.

 

[Zoomerang96]

yup.

 

[Elvis]

Elvis, teaching peace is a great concept but its not possible. Schools in Saudi Arabia teach that Jews are inferior. The Palestineans fight against the Israelis, the Catholics fight against the Protestants. The KKK thinks that a peaceful world is a caucasian world.

Whose peace is right? Your idea of peace? My idea of peace? Because peace is a relative word.

There is racism, there is sexism, there is bigotry in this country. There is no definition for peace in the real world that we live in.

Your post makes recall when I was a child in school.. and some kids would say 'Who made you God?'

PEACE is a logical thing. It's a simple concept (although perhaps complex solutions).

All of those things you mentioned are crimes against humanity. They are HATE.

HATE is NOT PEACE .... I don't give a shit who says it is.

2+2=4
4+0=4
0+4=4

 

[hiphop]

And peace is not a relative word.

It is, indeed, a logical, simple thing.

 

[theSoulfulMofo]

How can peace be a simple thing, when most humans are wired with survival-of-the-fittest instincts?

I mean, it's literally a dog-eat-dog world out there... economically (captialism), politically , socially (racism)... in the free world, we are taught to compete and earn our place in the world, even it means beating down the underdogs...

i don't know... am i making any sense?

 

[hippy]

How can peace be a simple thing, when most humans are wired with survival-of-the-fittest instincts?

I mean, it's literally a dog-eat-dog world out there... economically (captialism), politically , socially (racism)... in the free world, we are taught to compete and earn our place in the world, even it means beating down the underdogs...

i don't know... am i making any sense?

Anthropologically, humans do not have instincts. Everything we have learned is a product of the society we live in. Unfortunately, the societies we have all grown up in are largely capitalist and have the "dog-eat-dog" mentality. Also unfortunately, that world view has infiltrated most human life. But if you look at societies like band societies, they don't engage in war to solve their problems. War developed when agricultural societies started to grow and become rooted in one spot. When people began to lose intimate contact with one another, they began to engage in the practice of war. And it has developed from there.

I am a pacifist and I will continue to be active and support a change in world-view so that we can all recognize how connected we are. Our society has not always been capitalist and hopefully this will not be the last stop on our evolutionary journey.

As gabrielvox said, "Peace IS the answer, its getting everyone sold on that concept that is the hard part."

 

[Sherry Darling]

Anthropologically, humans do not have instincts. Everything we have learned is a product of the society we live in.

Um, Hippy. You know I love ya and admire your 24K heart, right?
I'm usually right with ya but have to disagree this time.

Humans don't have insincts? Tell that to anyone who's ever been attacked. Any mother who sees her kid in harm's way. Anyone who hasn't eaten in a week.

 

[hippy]

Um, Hippy. You know I love ya and admire your 24K heart, right?
I'm usually right with ya but have to disagree this time.

Humans don't have insincts? Tell that to anyone who's ever been attacked. Any mother who sees her kid in harm's way. Anyone who hasn't eaten in a week.

lol you should have heard my anthropology teacher trying to convice my class last semester that humans don't have instincts. But technically we don't. We aren't born with anything in us that says "as a mother, when my child is in trouble, I must protect it". That reaction in us is learned. We learn how to be mothers. We learn how to react when we are attacked. Humans have reflexes, such as breathing and muscle contractions when we touch something hot, etc. But everything else is learned.

The example my professor gave was with chimpanzees (who are the closest primate to humans). Suppose that a chimp is taken from it's mother as soon as it's born. It's raised by itself and has no one to learn from. No way to learn social patterns of behavior, no way to learn how to "mother", or how to take care of a child. Suppose that chimpanzee then has a baby. You will find fthat the chimpanzee has no ability to care for that infant chimp. She will have no knowledge of what to do with it or how to behave toward it, etc. Even when her baby is in mortal danger, she will be apathetic because she has never been taught that a mother *should* protect her baby. The same goes for if the chimp is put in contact with other chimpanzees. She will be lost as to how to deal with them as a consequence of never having learned that particular behavior. This analogy applies to humans in the same sense. Look at other cultures and you will find a different idea of "mother".

So all that was to show that our behaviors are learned. So if we teach peace and demonstrate peace, our children will grow up with that idea. Humans do not have an instinct to fight, though our society claims that we do. It is simply a matter of learning, and when we don't teach fighting, or we choose to unlearn fighting (as I have tried to do), then we can be successful as peaceful peoples.

P.S. Thanks for the compliment, it means a lot

 

[nbcrusader]

As gabrielvox said, "Peace IS the answer, its getting everyone sold on that concept that is the hard part."

And who's peace is the answer. Capitalism? Communism?Christian? Islam? Hindu? Etc.?

I doubt you will find anyone chanting "Down with Peace!"

You will never get everyone to agree with what "peace" is.

 

[adamswildhoney]

HATE is NOT PEACE

Everyone, everywhere will have a different definition of what "PEACE" is. Most however agree with what Elvis has said"Hate is NOT peace". I think that until we can find that common ground with all peoples, we will continue to see blood being shed on foregin lands and in homelands.

 

[pub crawler]

Humans have reflexes, such as breathing and muscle contractions when we touch something hot, etc. But everything else is learned.

Okay, wait. Your Anthro professor teaches a radically different concept of behavior than did the professor from whom I took an anthro class 5 years ago at UCLA. Either that, or I totally misunderstood my professor -- or I'm totally misunderstanding your professor.

My professor instilled in us that all behavior is a product of both nature and nurture. "Instincts" are the same thing as "nature," are they not? I'm honestly curious about what you learned.


Edit: It's also possible that one or both of our professors were wrong.

 

[hippy]

Okay, wait. Your Anthro professor teaches a radically different concept of behavior than did the professor from whom I took an anthro class 5 years ago at UCLA. Either that, or I totally misunderstood my professor -- or I'm totally misunderstanding your professor.

My professor instilled in us that all behavior is a product of both nature and nurture. "Instincts" are the same thing as "nature," are they not? I'm honestly curious about what you learned.


Edit: It's also possible that one or both of our professors were wrong.

First, I should say that the class that I took was a Cultural Anthropology class which focused mainly on the development and structure of human societies. This class is different from a regular anthropology class which would tend to focus on human evolution and such. Now that that's done, on to the other stuff!

According to the text that we used (Bates and Fratkin, Cultural Anthropology, 2003) and my particular professor, "nature" is simply the genes you are born with. This determines your physical and, to some extent, emotional indispositions. It takes the "nurture" (the environment in which you live) to express those characteristics. So, for example, some genes may be expressed in a certain in environment which may not be expressed in another. So, yes, behavior is a product of both nature and nurture. What I was trying to show in my previous post was that humans do not have "instincts," that is, programmed behavior to act a certain way in a certain situation. Women are not programmed to be mothers, that is a learned behavior. However, women are born with the capacity to become mothers. In the same manner, all men are capable of becoming the biological parent of a child, but that does not mean they automatically are born with the capability to be what our society calls a "father."

So to answer your question: Instincts are not nature. Those things we are taught to refer to as instincts are really reflexes. Our genes cannot tell us how to mother or father or take care of ourselves. Our genes can give us the ability to be able to do those things, but it is the behavior we learn from the moment we leave the womb that teaches us how to do the things necessary for life. And what we learn is determined by our culture.

Okay, now that we've completely hijacked this thread... if people don't mind this discussion continuing here... we can keep it here. Or I'd be happy to discuss this via PM or IM or email

I still believe peace is possible!

 

[Elvis]

So all that was to show that our behaviors are learned. So if we teach peace and demonstrate peace, our children will grow up with that idea. Humans do not have an instinct to fight, though our society claims that we do. It is simply a matter of learning, and when we don't teach fighting, or we choose to unlearn fighting (as I have tried to do), then we can be successful as peaceful peoples.

Very well said.

but.. lets keep this thread on course... no hijacking.. its not peaceful

 

[hippy]

Very well said.

but.. lets keep this thread on course... no hijacking.. its not peaceful

thank you

and I promise to stay on the subject when I come in here

 

[speedracer]

At the moment, I am more comfortable with GWB's conception of peace than with Saddam Hussein's.

 

[hiphop]

Sure, leave it to speedracer to blow that thread up.

 

[hippy]

Anyone wanna discuss the peace thread?

That's part of my journal where we can discuss any of the ideas I've presented if you have anymore questions about them

 

[Sherry Darling]

lol you should have heard my anthropology teacher trying to convice my class last semester that humans don't have instincts. But technically we don't. We aren't born with anything in us that says "as a mother, when my child is in trouble, I must protect it". That reaction in us is learned. We learn how to be mothers. P.S. Thanks for the compliment, it means a lot

You're welcome.

But I still don't buy it. Survival is an instinct. Sex and sleep are instincts. We're created with them in order to stay alive. There is precedent for this in nature, too.

See ya round, Hippy!

SD

 

[gvox]

I think they're suicidal.

Melon

They must be if they put themselves in Bush's line of fire.

 

[Laura M]

I know what I will have to say doesnt have much substance or anything cus I never post in these parts but anyway

I am all in favour of Peace I dont understand how one person who was created equally like everyone else holds so much power, Americans are pawns to George Bush he will send them away from their families to fight in a war, would he fight in a war? I doubt it. I just dont see how he or anyone else could justify a war with Iraq where innocent lives will be lost. Power is a very dangerous thing imo and how a very few amount of people can effectively have so much control over our lives is pretty scary

Maybe that made no sense but

 

[theSoulfulMofo]

Here's a thought: If the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, can there still be peace?

 

[Elvis]

You're welcome.

But I still don't buy it. Survival is an instinct. Sex and sleep are instincts. We're created with them in order to stay alive. There is precedent for this in nature, too.

See ya round, Hippy!

SD

Actually... survival in humans is not an instinct - its taught. Sleep is something that happens, no matter if you try to or not. Also.. from what I've read/heard ... sex with humans is not an instinct either, it's something we choose to do, and also do for pleasure.

 

[Elvis]

Here's a thought: If the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, can there still be peace?

In the long run... I think personal wealth will have to be eliminated, or limited....