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Old 05-06-2002, 02:17 PM   #31
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sorry, I should have said "exactly what I was thinking." Sometimes I think inaccurate things.
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Old 05-06-2002, 02:25 PM   #32
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That is indeed, correct, Salome.
However, I do not think that it will discourage HIS party and the others to rally for their own cause, this very incident is the point; he has become a martyr. A crucified Messiah before the sermon on the mount.

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Old 05-06-2002, 02:37 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
Yes, I have just heard the announcement on TV, Pim Fortuyn has died, shot six times apparently.

Though there have been more tragic deaths before, what makes this one particularly tragic is that the right-wing parties all acorss Europe will send a message back, and I believe they will return with a vengeance and increasing popularity - the murder of Fortuyn has now made less people sympathetic towards the immigrants.

I am concerned for the future.

Ant.
agreed.

i also agree with the martyr bit.

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[This message has been edited by Zoomerang96 (edited 05-06-2002).]
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Old 05-06-2002, 05:46 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn:
BTW, I just read that, among other politicians, Blair has also expressed his horror with this murder (saying something like, and I'm trying to paraphrase, "Whatever feelings politicians may cause, the only way to express them is in the voting booth")
Martijn
Tony Blair expresses his horror everytime someone argues with him, the man is always horrified. And as wise as his comment may be, some feelings are simply too strong to be expressed in a voting booth.

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Old 05-07-2002, 03:02 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn:
Unbelievable!
Who could do such a thing? What is happening here?
I mean, you could disagree with him (many did), but shooting him? How insane can you get?

Martijn

You're actually surprised?

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Old 05-07-2002, 03:09 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
he has become a martyr. A crucified Messiah before the sermon on the mount.
he has become a human being who has been murdered because of his opinions

he never had anything to do with Le Pen, De Winter or other right wing parties



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Old 05-07-2002, 03:11 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:

You're actually surprised?
the netherlands are a democracy you know?

what was the last time a politician has been murdered in a democracy
and not even because of his point of view on one particular subject but because of his opinions in general

people in the netherlands aren't surprised but shocked

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[This message has been edited by Salome (edited 05-06-2002).]
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Old 05-07-2002, 03:12 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome:
Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
he has become a martyr. A crucified Messiah before the sermon on the mount.
he has become a human being who has been murdered because of his opinions

he never had anything to do with Le Pen, De Winter or other right wing parties

Except that he, like Le Pen, blamed a lot of the country's problems on imigrants, and was very much in favour of abolishing such immigration. Apart from being extreme right-wingers, they both had very similar policies. They may not have been in connection directly, but politically they are quite a resemblance. There are wider issues in question besides one man dying.

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Old 05-07-2002, 03:15 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:

You're actually surprised?

Ant.
Yes, I AM surprised that someone could get it in his head to shoot him. I mean, you could disagree with the man (quite rightly so on many points), but murder him because of his opinions? I'd never expected this to happen here.

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Old 05-07-2002, 03:17 AM   #40
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he isn't dying he has been murdered

about every political parties in the netherlands recognises that we need to do something about our immigration legislations
I don't know what that tells you about us, but it is the truth

our laws re. immigration are far less restrictive then in other european countries

he was a populist
putting him in a group with the european right wing doesn't sound right to me

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Old 05-07-2002, 03:21 AM   #41
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When a humble writer such as Salman Rushdie can be granted a 'fatwa' all becuase of ONE line in one of his many books, I don't find it suprising that a man who called the entire Islamic culture a backward culture was assasinated before the elections.

If it can happen to Martin Luther King, it can happen to anyone.

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Old 05-07-2002, 03:24 AM   #42
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Oh, so he WASN'T a right-winger?

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Old 05-07-2002, 03:25 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
If it can happen to Martin Luther King, it can happen to anyone.
I fail to see the similarities



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Old 05-07-2002, 03:27 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome:
Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
If it can happen to Martin Luther King, it can happen to anyone.
I fail to see the similarities
The similarity is this; you can kill anybody. And when a person is calling a group of people backward, its bound to piss people off.

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Old 05-07-2002, 03:28 AM   #45
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I don't think the concept of martyrdom is embedded in the Dutch culture. I think his political party will wither away eventually considering the fact most people don't even know the name of the #2 on the list.
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