parallels of europe before 1933 and now in 02 - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-03-2002, 06:37 AM   #16
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 08:28 PM
Popmartijn:

I don't care what the article says, if someone says to me that a certain race (or, indeed, any race) is 'backward', that is a rascist statement as ever there was one. What he is doing with the Arabs in his country is not too disimilar with what Hitler did with Jews - use them as scapegoats.

Fortuyne maybe a 'populist', however, I find his views to be rascist. Emigration problems is NOT the fault of the migrants or the citizens, in my opinion, it is the fault of the government for not controlling it.

Ant.
__________________

__________________
Anthony is offline  
Old 05-03-2002, 11:34 PM   #17
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
U2Bama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine
Posts: 3,405
Local Time: 02:28 PM
Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia (a former Ku Klux Klan member) and the unpredictable Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina were the only two U.S. senators to oppose Senator Lieberman's resolution of support for Israel, for those of you who find such events interesting.

~U2Alabama
__________________

__________________
U2Bama is offline  
Old 05-05-2002, 04:56 AM   #18
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Popmartijn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 32,543
Local Time: 09:28 PM
On the website of The Economist there is an article stating that anti-Semitism is not rising. What many people fail to recognize is that the (small) group (of mainly young Muslims) that is using despicable violence against Jewish targets is not the same group of people who have criticism on the Israeli government and its policies.

In another article in the print edition of The Economist (don't know why they have 2 separate articles on the same subject) they again state that anti-Semitism is a prejudice of a small minority in Europe and America. If someone's interested I'll transcribe it, but please take a look at the article on the website first.

C ya!

Marty

------------------
People criticize me but I know it's not the end
I try to kick the truth, not just to make friends

Spearhead - People In Tha Middle
__________________
Popmartijn is offline  
Old 05-05-2002, 05:21 PM   #19
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
DrTeeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Q continuum
Posts: 4,770
Local Time: 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
I don't care what the article says, if someone says to me that a certain race (or, indeed, any race) is 'backward', that is a rascist statement as ever there was one. What he is doing with the Arabs in his country is not too disimilar with what Hitler did with Jews - use them as scapegoats.
Fortuyn never said anything about backward races but called the Islamic culture backward for (amongst other things) their stance on emancipation, freedom of speach/press etc. I don't think that's a racist remark. I agree his ideas on imigration (the spearhead of his program) are questionable and he sure as hell is getting a lot of votes because of it, but comparing him to Hitler goes too far. I haven't found any evidence on Fortuyn being fascist either.
__________________
DrTeeth is offline  
Old 05-06-2002, 02:14 AM   #20
Refugee
 
Foxxern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,284
Local Time: 02:28 PM
In fact, it is somewhat of amisconception that Hitler rose to power directly because of the recession in Germany cause by wartime reparations. The Weimar Republic was actually able to pay off Germany's debts, and Germany enjoyed a brief period of prosperity during the late 1920s. However, the economy soon went downwards, and Hitler, at the time not known as a genocidal maniac, took power as chancellor when the Nazis became more popular under ideas such as strong nationalism and general xenophobia. It was only later that he began to exact actions against these minorities, after he led Germany into economic prosperity.

The similarities between Le Pen and Hitler are indeed very striking. From the fact that they are both former soldiers, to their own brand of anti-Semitism. Luckily, France turned out in huge numbers to make sure Le Pen was not elected. However, this election should have served as a huge wake-up call to Chirac that he needs to step it up.

------------------
Change is the only constant
__________________
Foxxern is offline  
Old 05-06-2002, 02:18 AM   #21
Refugee
 
Foxxern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 1,284
Local Time: 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Lilly:
Calling Le Penne a Hitler-type is a bit of a stretch to me. Yes they are both crazy super right-wingers, but Le Penne isn't preaching about killing people in a genocidal rage is he? Le Penne is also a freak, produced from a multi-party system with lazy voters. Had more people turned out to vote, France would not be in the predicament it is in now.
Not as much of a stretch as it may seem. Hitler at first never talked about wiping out the Jews or any other group of people. Germany at the time also had many politcal parties, and the people were generally apathetic and unreceptive towards democracy. The majority of Germans did not even support Hitler and the Nazis initially. But it didn't take a majority to put Hitler into the chancellor's position. The French people should watch out if they want to preserve democracy and European unity.



------------------
Change is the only constant
__________________
Foxxern is offline  
Old 05-06-2002, 04:21 AM   #22
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Zoomerang96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,459
Local Time: 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Foxxern:
Not as much of a stretch as it may seem. Hitler at first never talked about wiping out the Jews or any other group of people.

actually what makes him and germany all the more unsettling, is the fact that he DID give plenty of warning!

have you read mein kaumf? (sp?) the whole thing is laced with anti-semitism, and to say he didnt give the world any idea of what he was about to do is simply not true.

however, me and you may be talking about certain degrees of awareness, and i will definately concede that NOONE had any idea that things would be as bad as they really were.

------------------
-deathbear
__________________
Zoomerang96 is offline  
Old 05-06-2002, 12:36 PM   #23
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
DrTeeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Q continuum
Posts: 4,770
Local Time: 09:28 PM
Pim Fortuyn has been shot!!!!

__________________
DrTeeth is offline  
Old 05-06-2002, 12:51 PM   #24
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 10:28 PM
One of the most important reasons why Hitler could have success was the massive support in money from the steel (defense) industry.
Krupp, Thyssen,... without them Hitler wouldnīt have had enough money to rise. Take this into account. Take into account that Le Pen has enough media, that Berlusconi owns half italy, that Haider is a land owner big style. Take into account that the social systems all over West Europe are being destroyed backed by the argument af making no new debts (Maastricht criteria, very strange that all of those independent national economies are at a crisis at the same time!). Take into account what is happening worldwide in terms of globalization.
Ummmm, and take into account that Vice Presidentīs of top defense contractors see themselves in "crisis"...
I am not going to talk of right wingers or left wingers here. Or so called democratic socialists or other crap. All I know is that strategies and policys are not planned and executed because public opinions change. Look at all this media hype. Look at the P2 in Italy. Look at Haiderīs studies in the U.S. and his travels to Irak (although we donīt know whatīs behind this, maybe a deal?).
But tell me who could get a new Hitler? If the Pentagon gives Military Training to over 70 countries? If the U.S. sold weapons or took part in 39 out of 42 conflicts in the year 2000 (thatīs 92%)? No way, I dare say. Oh, and take into account that Eisenhower already warned of the military - industrial complex - no wonder, with the WWII just over.
__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 05-06-2002, 01:20 PM   #25
War Child
 
Spiral_Staircase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
Posts: 679
Local Time: 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth:
Pim Fortuyn has been shot!!!!

Unbelievable. Here's the story: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ician_attacked

Dutch Politician Fortuyn Is Killed
Mon May 6, 1:10 PM ET

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - Right-wing Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn was shot dead by an unidentified gunman, Dutch television reported.



Police confirmed the attack, but did not immediately confirm his death.

Earlier, Fortuyn's spokesman said Fortuyn was unlikely to survive the gunshot wounds.

Fortuyn was shot at least six times in the head, chest and neck, as he was going for a radio interview in the town of Hilversum, 12 miles southeast of Amsterdam, Dutch media reported.

The attack against Fortuyn, 53, came nine days before national elections. Opinion polls predicted the flamboyant politician, campaigning on an anti-immigrant platform, would lead one of the largest parties in parliament.

Dutch television said paramedics treated Fortuyn where he fell at the entrance to a building, and he was not taken to hospital.

No information was immediately available about the assailant, but Dutch television said at least four people chased him as he fled.

"I saw Pim Fortuyn lying on the ground with a bullet wound in his head," said television reporter Dave Abspoel.

Prime Minister Wim Kok broke off campaigning in the western city of Haarlem for the May 15 general elections.

__________________
Spiral_Staircase is offline  
Old 05-06-2002, 01:54 PM   #26
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Popmartijn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 32,543
Local Time: 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth:
Pim Fortuyn has been shot!!!!

Unbelievable!
Who could do such a thing? What is happening here?
I mean, you could disagree with him (many did), but shooting him? How insane can you get?

Martijn
__________________
Popmartijn is offline  
Old 05-06-2002, 02:04 PM   #27
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,016
Local Time: 09:28 PM
hate, narrow minded politicians (who only care about the elections) and suggestive media

they wanted to get rid of him and they managed it

------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it
__________________
Salome is online now  
Old 05-06-2002, 02:07 PM   #28
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 08:28 PM
Yes, I have just heard the announcement on TV, Pim Fortuyn has died, shot six times apparently.

Though there have been more tragic deaths before, what makes this one particularly tragic is that the right-wing parties all acorss Europe will send a message back, and I believe they will return with a vengeance and increasing popularity - the murder of Fortuyn has now made less people sympathetic towards the immigrants.

I am concerned for the future.

Ant.
__________________
Anthony is offline  
Old 05-06-2002, 02:11 PM   #29
War Child
 
Spiral_Staircase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
Posts: 679
Local Time: 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
Though there have been more tragic deaths before, what makes this one particularly tragic is that the right-wing parties all acorss Europe will send a message back, and I believe they will return with a vengeance and increasing popularity - the murder of Fortuyn has now made less people sympathetic towards the immigrants.

exactly....
__________________
Spiral_Staircase is offline  
Old 05-06-2002, 02:15 PM   #30
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,016
Local Time: 09:28 PM
not exactly

there has been no news yet who killed him
they even think it might have been a 'supporter' of some extreme right-wing group who are disgruntled because of his 'success'

------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it
__________________

__________________
Salome is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright ÂĐ Interference.com