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Old 01-27-2006, 01:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
it's always good to have a dangling camera swinging in front of the president's face while he's trying to make hold an important press conference on the middle east...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...hre10601261623

one more example
of this administration’s hostility towards the press
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Old 01-27-2006, 06:46 PM   #32
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I am choosing to be optimistic about this. For this reason: Funny things generally happen to "revolutions"--and esp "revolutionaries"--once they get what they wish for. A lot of the glamour --and yes, I will use that dirty word "glamour"--of the "revolution" will go out fo the top Hamas brass, newly installed in offices, once six months pass and they have to deal with with the utterly mundance S*** of government: sewers and taxes and health care. The ball will now be in their court and they will have to produce. They can't just make a living waving the flag and bombing people. Hmas was on the risk-free "outside", n owq they're on the "inside" and it is a historical fact that given this situation, they can't remain the same. In public, anyway.

Anybody seen "Munich" ? That was Arafat's Fatah that began its illustrious career murdering Israeli atheletes, they progressed from that to highjacking Western planes in the '70's. But a strange thing happened on the way to the barricades. While Arafat reamined de facto spiritual guru, Fatah proper, as the only group out there, had to develop a political wing. And while its political philosophy was basically unchanged,...well, what I'm trying to say is, after a year of dealing with sewers and taxes and health care, Hmas will have to tone itself down (in pub;ic anyway.) They are too now competing with old Fatah, so they will hopefully realize that they can't remain as they are. In time they may be politically neutralized as Fatah became.

The downside of this, however, is that there are always those in alleyways keeping tabs, and they will step in and fill the "open terrorist" gap if they precive Hamas has sold out. So the results are mixed. Hmas may end up like Fatah (still dangerous, the old guard is, politically speaking) but terrorism is like a virus. It will always find ways to multiply.

I suspect the real reason Jewsih groups are so worried is that Fatah has been neutralized, and Hamas is what Fatah used to be : undivided Palestinaian support. They have the ear of the man inb the street and can't be controlled--yet.
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Old 01-27-2006, 11:03 PM   #33
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Quote:
Saudis: U.S. paved way for Hamas victory

By Claude Salhani
Jan 28, 2006, 19:00 GMT

WASHINGTON, DC, United States (UPI) -- A confidential Saudi report prepared just weeks before the Palestinian elections predicted a Hamas victory in Gaza and the West Bank and puts the blame on the United States: \'By failing to strengthen (President Mahmoud )Abbas`s position, the U.S. has paved the way for a Hamas victory,\' states a document prepared by the Saudi National Security Assessment Project.

\'Moreover, the U.S administration`s faith in the power of elections to transform people makes it oblivious to the possibility that the democratic process is often a double-edged sword which can have unintended consequences,\' goes on to say the policy brief delivered last Dec. 27 by the SNSAP`s director, Nawaf Obaid.

Furthermore, the brief states that the U.S. failed to press \'Abbas to implement his commitments to security and disarmament, and has not succeeded in convincing donor nations to fulfill their pledges for financial assistance to the Palestinians.\'

Obaid`s study anticipated that the Palestinian elections set for January 25, 2006 \'will in all probability result in a victory for Hamas.\'

\'Such an outcome would have wide ranging implications for Saudi Arabia`s national security and emerging foreign policy in the region,\' warned the confidential brief made available to United Press International, adding that \'the Palestinians face dire social welfare needs not addressed by the current government.\'

Recent surveys conducted by the Saudi National Security Assessment Project indicate that there is deep distrust of senior officials in the Palestinian Authority, most of whom are Fatah members. \'This situation has created an opportunity that Hamas has been able to exploit.\'

The brief cites United Nations statistics indicating that \'almost 75 percent of Palestinians live below the poverty line.\'

Given that Hamas operates \'extensive social services infrastructure that includes schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, and soup kitchens,\' basic services that the Palestinian Authority under Yasser Arafat and later Abbas, often failed to provide anything approaching Hamas` services.
article here
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:37 PM   #34
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They elected Hitler.

And they have their social agenda layed out.
Quote:
The incoming Hamas government will move quickly to make Islamic sharia “a source” of law in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and will overhaul the Palestinian education system to separate boys and girls and introduce a more Islamic curriculum, a senior official in the movement said yesterday.

Spelling out the domestic agenda of Hamas for the first time since the group's stunning victory in a legislative election this week, Sheik Mohammed Abu Teir also said Hamas would not go to foreign donors on bended knee if they withdrew aid to the Palestinian Authority.
link
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:48 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
They elected Hitler.


Uh oh......someone mentioned the war.......http://forum.interference.com/showth...33#post3386033
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:53 PM   #36
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For the record I entirely disagree with the absurd and stupid policy of not being allowed to mention Hitler and the Nazis except in the specific context of debating them.

If A_Wanderer thinks Hamas are comparable or equivialent to Hitler then he should damn well have the right to say it.
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:54 PM   #37
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No that is a fact, a candidate who calls himself Hitler was elected.

That is his name.

He is called Hitler.

He is what the Palestinians wanted



Source

Article before the elections, since then the list has him making it in.
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:57 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
No that is a fact, a Hamas candidate who calls himself Hitler was elected.

That is his name.

He is called Hitler.

He is what the Palestinians wanted
As I said:- 'For the record I entirely disagree with the absurd and stupid policy of not being allowed to mention Hitler and the Nazis except in the specific context of debating them.'
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Old 01-28-2006, 10:07 PM   #39
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Ah come on financeguy, let it go. I don't myself fully share Elvis' views on this subject, despite coming from similar family background--nor was I personally offended by the sarcastic aside that got you in trouble the other day (mostly because I'm familiar enough with your brand of humor to know it didn't imply casual indifference to the Holocaust). But policy is policy, and it's only right and fair for Elvis to establish certain preconditions for his own site. He has gone to some heroic lengths to make our little community here possible, after all.

And all Elvis really said, actually, was that these terms must be used "cautiously and correctly"--that was Sicy's own (though obviously insider-based) way of fleshing it out to explain it as limiting all such references to Nazis in the historic sense. Looking at the link A_W posted, and considering the implications of an Islamist politican from an avowedly anti-Jewish background going by the nickname of "Hitler," I do not think it is too much of stretch to speculate that A_W's reference was probably more in tune with Elvis' policy than yours was.

Again--I say this as someone who was not personally bothered by your statement and feels some sympathy for your indignation at the rebuke. But I think it would be better for everyone involved to let that all pass.

~ Peace
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Old 01-29-2006, 06:50 AM   #40
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Points taken, Yolland.
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Old 01-29-2006, 02:30 PM   #41
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Quote:
Saudis: U.S. paved way for Hamas victory
I bet Hamas gets more funding through Saudi channels than US channels. THe public finger pointing at the US is the polite way of trying to blame Israel.
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Old 01-29-2006, 03:22 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I bet Hamas gets more funding through Saudi channels than US channels. THe public finger pointing at the US is the polite way of trying to blame Israel.
Quote:


But to really understand this dramatic election, it is necessary to look at the broader picture of Hamas' place in Palestinian society. For most Palestinians, Hamas is the force that is capable of bringing them significant gains, and not only in their conflict with Israel. On the Palestinian street, Hamas is the only force that has displayed a real, human interest in the plight of the masses of underprivileged, hungry Palestinians. The Palestinian poor long ago lost patience with their leaders' corruption and ostentatious flaunting of the perquisites of power. These public servants scandalously doubled their own salaries this year and have been suspiciously chummy with Israeli officials.

Israel fostered Hamas in the 1980s as a counterweight to the Palestine Liberation Organization. For four decades, Israel oppressed the Palestinians and pushed them into their current state of horrible despair. As an Israeli, I do not think that I can today judge the Palestinians for being tempted by the deceits of Hamas and the violent, simplistic magic of fanaticism.

Can fanatics become pragmatists?
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Old 01-29-2006, 06:24 PM   #43
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Hamas have some strange allies. I saw a statement posted on another board congratulating them on their win by someone claiming to represent the 32 County Sovereignty Movement (an organisation linked to the Omagh bombing)

By their fruits ye shall know them.
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Old 01-29-2006, 07:27 PM   #44
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A bit of levity? Sort of ?....
Quote:
Nervous Palestinians Circulate Hamas Jokes

By SARAH EL DEEB
Associated Press


RAMALLAH, West Bank — A slew of jokes circulating among Palestinians following Hamas' landslide election victory reflects concerns that the fundamentalist group will impose Islamic law and social codes across the West Bank and Gaza.

As one goes, all police stations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip have been ordered shut because all complaints must now be filed directly to God.

Invoking God and Islamic tradition is the mainstay of all the quips that have been spreading by word of mouth and mobile phone text messages in the past few days.

Hamas officials rushed to deny that they will force their beliefs on Palestinians. "Rest assured we don't impose our thoughts on anyone," Hamas leader Khaled Maashal said Saturday in the Syrian capital, Damascus. "We will present our thoughts to our people and they have the right to choose."

Many Palestinians were not reassured.

One newly elected legislator has said she plans to submit a bill requiring girls and women to wear the hijab, a headdress covering the hair.

At a Hamas rally in Ramallah this week, an organizer tried contain his members from clashing with Fatah supporters by shouting, "Sons, it is time to pray. To the mosque." They all dispersed.

Mobile phones are abuzz with text messaged jokes prophesying a new police uniform mirroring the short dress and baggy pants worn by the former hardline Taliban rulers of Afghanistan, and a discount on taxes for Christians who convert to Islam within a week.

Speeding ticket? Pay for it with extra prayers.

The jokes in the West Bank reflect the rawest nerves because Palestinians there tend to be less traditional than in Gaza, where the militant Hamas is strongest.

In Gaza in the early 1990s, after the first Palestinian uprising in Israel, Hamas used a quasi-police force to shut down restaurants serving alcohol and to impose a conservative dress code.

While an overwhelming majority of people chose Hamas on election day, the wide circulation of the jokes reflects how conflicted people are over their choice, said Nadia Najjab, a social psychology professor in the West Bank Birzeit University.

"The jokes are really expressive of our fears," said Anis Barioush, a 50-year old teacher in the West Bank town of Ramallah. "The new rulers will change our traditions and impose a Taliban rule."
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Old 01-29-2006, 07:49 PM   #45
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When asked whether the Hamas would renounce terrorism, Zahar said in a CNN interview, "What is the international definition of terrorism? When (Israeli planes) attack houses by F-16, just when they are using helicopters, when they are killing people and children and removing our agriculture system, this is terrorism."
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