Overheard at the local Mosque after Bombings in Spain

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Dreadsox

ONE love, blood, life
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Nope, not a word of sorrow over the loss of life:

Here are links to the entire sermon:



Qatar Sermon:

[Q]"O God, support our mujahidin
brothers on the land of Palestine. O God, strengthen them, unite them, and
help them score a victory. O God, turn against the arrogant, usurper,
unjust, aggressor Jews and their wicked Crusader allies."[/Q]


http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=20092

Jordan Sermon:

[Q] "O God, strengthen Islam and
Muslims, humiliate infidelity and infidels. O God, destroy your enemies,
the Jewish and crusader enemies of Islam."[/Q]

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=20095

Syria Sermon:

[Q]"O God, deal with the criminal Zionists and those with them and
behind them for they are within Your power. O God, scatter them, disperse
their assemblies, lower their flags, destroy their economy, and make the
cycles of evil turn around against them. O God, show us the miracle of Your
power on them. O God, make them destroy themselves. O God, bring down your
anger on them."[/Q]



[url]http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=20091
[/URL]

Yemen Sermon:

[Q]"O God, have mercy on Muslims.
O God, support those supporting Islam and disappoint those disappointing
Muslims. O God, destroy the aggressive Zionists and the tyrant Americans
and shake the ground under their feet."[/Q]

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=20090
 
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From Saudi Arabia:

[Q]"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it
be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those
who have lost."
[/Q]

and

[Q]"What has caused misery to mankind in these times of confused ideas is when
some politicians hijacked religions and used them as a means to suppress
others and a tool to dominate the followers of other faiths. This is what
world Zionism did to Judaism. This is also what the so-called secular
governments did to Christianity. They coerced peoples and occupied states by
religious motives and claims of religiousness. And, although they deny these
motives in their statements, they come out in their slips of the tongue and
are unequivocally explained by their statements. The clerics in those
religions are called upon to clearly say that they do not approve the
behavior of their governments and that what is happening is not advocated by
their religions so that their followers who are used in these attacks, those
who think they are doing a good thing and getting closer God, would know
that they are mere tools in the hands of the politicians serving their
reckless whims, which are not curbed by religion or morals. These people's
[clerics] silence and shy statements would only lead to the conflict or
clash of civilizations. The racial segregation wall, which usurps Muslim
lands in Palestine, is one example."[/Q]

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=20089
 
I would think after the horrible loss of life, there would be some message of grief? i think I said that at the top.

All too often the reaction in here has been that the terrorists are fanatics, yet in the mosques in the countries I listed above, there apparently is very little sadness of the loss of life.

I also believe that to them this is personal, it is religious, and there is no room for anyone in their world but those who believe in their religion.
 
I think it's disgusting, especially from those who claim to believe in a merciful God. But where were the Muslim responses that were sympathetic? I'm sure I could scour the internet for Christian responses that were less than sympathetic to the deaths of Islamic innocents in the "War on Terror."

But I have better things to do, and other things to focus on, rather than the bigoted reactions of a group of people.

I still don't understand the piont of posting things like this. So? Some people are assholes. They happen to be of a differeent religion than me. And?

If your point was to show that some Muslims are heartless bastards, you've made the point. If your point was something else, what was it?

edit: Should I title a thread "Overheard at the local church" and then quote some nasty sermons?
 
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Martha makes a good point. How many times has your church mourned the loss of lives of attacks on other religions. I went to a service this Sunday and not a word was said. But other than that, I just don't like this website, it seems very incomplete, I don't know how true or out of context any of these sermons were taken. But that's just my gut, maybe they are 100%, I don't know.
 
I am sorry...but...I made three points.

BonoVox, we pray in my church every week for many people, religion does not matter. I have never seen any of the multiple churches in my lifetime pray for horrible things to happen to others.
 
martha said:
I'm sure I could scour the internet for Christian responses that were less than sympathetic to the deaths of Islamic innocents in the "War on Terror."

Why does it always devolve to Muslims v. Christians? At least we haven't gotten the stupid Crusades post of the day yet.
 
This thread needs to produce some meaningful discussion or it will be closed. All I see so far are the usual suspects ganging up on each other.

Dread, maybe you'd like to explain why you posted these articles. You know we don't like people to just post stuff and not say anything about it. It's bad scholarship.

Everyone else: stop fighting. We all know how we feel about certain things. Let's try to have a civil discussion, 'cause my finger is itching right above "close." :|
 
Okay...I'm trying really hard to come up with some meaningful discussion.

Firstly, your links don't lead to the "entire sermon" as you claim - they lead to a commentary on the sermon by an Israeli website. The commentary contains selected quotes from the sermons, not the sermons in full. How do we know that the edited comments are representative of everything that was said in the mosque that day?

Secondly, you've posted comments from a handful of mosques when there are hundreds of thousands of mosques in the world. How do we know that the comments you quoted are representative of all mosques?

Frankly this seems like merely another post attempting to paint all Muslims as supporting terrorism. :( (No, Dread, I'm not saying you hold that opinion, I'm saying this post leads me to that conclusion.)

I wonder, if I posted a few quotes from sermons given in Christian churches which advocated actions most of us find distasteful, would we immediately assume all Christians think this way?

Nbc, this isn't anything to do with "Muslims v. Christians." I'm just pointing out that if someone were to post a few comments from a Christian sermon, we would not assume them to be representative of all Christians so we certainly should not assume that the extremely small selection of quotes posted by Dread are representative of all Muslims.

I get the feeling this thread will end up being closed, because we seem to have had this debate several times before and everytime it goes nowhere. :(
 
Dreadsox said:

BonoVox, we pray in my church every week for many people, religion does not matter. I have never seen any of the multiple churches in my lifetime pray for horrible things to happen to others.

Yes I agree no one should ever pray for horrible things to happen to others. It happens, in all religions, but it doesn't excuse it.

Now I haven't seen any evidence in these excerpts where they are specifically praising or calling upon these attacks. Yes their speech is harsh and not anything I would want to align myself with, but every religion has it's enemies. Every religion calls upon the removal of their enemies, maybe not in such words but they all do.

Looking back at the quotes again I do admit that the language is not that of a loving or peacful religion, but who are we quoting here? Are these the pastors at the local church to which you belong or is this the Jim Baker or the John Hagee's of their country? Just curious...
 
paxetaurora said:
This thread needs to produce some meaningful discussion or it will be closed. All I see so far are the usual suspects ganging up on each other.

Dread, maybe you'd like to explain why you posted these articles. You know we don't like people to just post stuff and not say anything about it. It's bad scholarship.

Everyone else: stop fighting. We all know how we feel about certain things. Let's try to have a civil discussion, 'cause my finger is itching right above "close." :|

I said nothing?

I made a statement to start it off, and I gave three reactions to Martha's quizzing.

Close it...I guess I did not meet the posting standards.
 
Another point would be, where is the outrage against terrorist acts like the ones committed last week. There is a fouth point.
 
Many Muslim governments put out statements condemning the Madrid terrorist attacks, including those of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Turkey. There were condemnations in the Turkish press. Ankara's soccer team is going ahead with plans to play a match in Madrid in a show of solidarity. U.S. Muslims were angered by the attack as well. There's a statement on the local Islamic Society's web site. Yeah, there are a few :censored:holes out there but there are jerks all over. Of course they are going to be in the newspapers just like the Klan and Dixiecrats and other undesirables in the U.S. are in the newspapers. They make headlines.
 
Fizz,

Sorry I overspoke...you are right...not in entirety...however this does not change the fact that the statements made are pretty counter productive if they wish for peace.


Bonovox,

There are plenty of things published on the web by some of the clerics.

Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi
Shaykh Ahmad Abd-al-Razzaq al-Ruqayhi
Shaykh Jamal Shakir
Shaykh Salih Bin-Muhammad Al Talib



All of the sermons were not just at some local mosque. They were broadcastr on State Sponsored Television. To me this is not picking out some radical out of the many mosques to make a point. Egypt, Yemen, Qatar, Jordan, Syria all broadcast this hate on GOVERNMENT TV.

Some of these governements are allegedly our ally.
 
AcrobatMan said:


dreadie, could you explain this ? my english isnt that good

I was being told I did not make enough of a point when I posted.

A fourth problem I have is that there appears to be very little outrage on state sponsored television stations towards the acts of terrorsim.

Instead we get on National TV Stations prayers of hatred directed at Israel, The USA, and the "CRUSADERS".
 
Dread, I do understand where you are saying. And it is very disturbing to read the articles, such as you have posted. Also, that these particular religious leaders, did not have an ounce of sympathy for loss of life. But, I truly feel that civilized people, world wide are morning, the lost of innocent lives in Spain, and eleswhere. Including Afghanistan and Iraq. I know I am.
 
Dreadsox said:


Bonovox,

There are plenty of things published on the web by some of the clerics.

Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi
Shaykh Ahmad Abd-al-Razzaq al-Ruqayhi
Shaykh Jamal Shakir
Shaykh Salih Bin-Muhammad Al Talib


All of the sermons were not just at some local mosque. They were broadcastr on State Sponsored Television. To me this is not picking out some radical out of the many mosques to make a point. Egypt, Yemen, Qatar, Jordan, Syria all broadcast this hate on GOVERNMENT TV.

Yeah I don't know anything about these clerics, I was just trying to say that personally I don't think most of the preachers here that get televised speak for me, I'd be scared that some may judge my beliefs based on their words. But I don't know...
 
Dreadsox said:


I was being told I did not make enough of a point when I posted.

A fourth problem I have is that there appears to be very little outrage on state sponsored television stations towards the acts of terrorsim.

Instead we get on National TV Stations prayers of hatred directed at Israel, The USA, and the "CRUSADERS".

ok
 
Dread.

I've lost count on how many times I've heard Pres. Bush, as well as other Presidents, make comments about God and "our Lord" during official govt speaches (State of the Union, etc).... and here our Govt is supposed to have SEPARATION of church and state.

So... our own leaders are hypocritical, have alterior motives, and do not always have the best interest of the country's values and principles in mind.

Why would you expect anywhere else to be different?
 
Do we have a state sponsored television station broadcasting prayers that call for economic disasters on our enemies?

I just think that we, having the luxury of living in the USA have this naive vision that this a war that will end. Too many countries are telling us they are our friend, Jordan, Egypt, Qatar.......yet they braodcast a religious extremist preaching hate.

There is a difference between the President mentioning God.

I am equally offended by Generals that believe GOD selsected Bush for this Holy war.

I do believe for the other side it is a holy war. I do believe that it will not stop anytime soon. Especially when it is broadcast on a weekly basis on national TV.
 
If the govt run our media (in the open)... perhaps. Instead though, we are subjected to subliminal propagands, lies, and cover-ups.... who knows, maybe being clear and honest about our govts/administration's intentions would be better....

and you're right... this "war" isnt going to end anytime soon...
 
Elvis said:
Dread.

I've lost count on how many times I've heard Pres. Bush, as well as other Presidents, make comments about God and "our Lord" during official govt speaches (State of the Union, etc).... and here our Govt is supposed to have SEPARATION of church and state.

So... our own leaders are hypocritical, have alterior motives, and do not always have the best interest of the country's values and principles in mind.

Why would you expect anywhere else to be different?

If look back at the people who wrote the constitution, I think you'll find that they mention God just as much as any President today during official govt speaches. I think you'll also find that religion and God are things this country definitely values.
 
STING2 said:


If look back at the people who wrote the constitution, I think you'll find that they mention God just as much as any President today during official govt speaches. I think you'll also find that religion and God are things this country definitely values.


Times have changed... and those whom wrote the constitution (some), while they believed in God, they were also seeking religious refuge/freedom from elswhere..... in todays context, many people DO NOT believe in God, nor an entity, power, or being named/labeled as God.

Despite the hypocrasy of our founding fathers, that does not give reason to ignore the fact that the intentions were clear: separation of church and state.

I have no problem with the mention of God on our money, etc... it is our heritage, it is tradition... however... in this time, for a president to be assuming that all US citizens believe in "God" is ignorant... and in my opinion religiously motivated.

While a great majority of the population may be religious, this is not a religious nation.
 
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