Outdated Sexist Tradition, Or Just A Gesture Of Courtesy And Respect? - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-09-2007, 01:37 PM   #16
Blue Crack Distributor
 
LarryMullen's POPAngel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: I'll be up with the sun, I'm not coming down...
Posts: 53,698
Local Time: 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase




edit- it's always fun when you quote someone who later retracts their statement, thus making it look like you made up what they said


I retract my retractment. How's that?
__________________

__________________
LarryMullen's POPAngel is offline  
Old 10-09-2007, 02:10 PM   #17
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BonosSaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,566
Local Time: 12:07 AM
Of course, as Vincent Vega noted, the guy looks like an ass if the woman says no.
__________________

__________________
BonosSaint is offline  
Old 10-09-2007, 03:42 PM   #18
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BrownEyedBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Pedro Sula, Honduras
Posts: 3,510
Local Time: 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I also think it's more of a symbolic guesture towards the family...

It´s symbollic people.

Just the same as women marry wearing white when it´s suppossed to symbolize purity and chastity even though there aren´t that many virgins getting married nowadays.
__________________
BrownEyedBoy is offline  
Old 10-09-2007, 04:07 PM   #19
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,482
Local Time: 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


meh... three months/five months... either way, one would assume you could do a lot more good with that money, like i don't know... apply it towards a downpayment on a house (what a silly concept)... then on a huge rock.


i am so, so glad i dont have to deal with this.

a friend of mine got married and spent a very good 5 figures on a ring, and then they wound up getting pregnant (with twins!) just weeks after the wedding and now they need a house and they can't afford one in this area due to all their debt, despite the fact that he makes a solid 6 figures as a lawyer.

it just seems silly to me.

i'd rather spend my money buying Memphis overpriced Le Creuset cookware.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 10-09-2007, 04:11 PM   #20
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,667
Local Time: 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


it just seems silly to me.

One of the upsides to homosexual relationships, not so many of the outdated traditions... and you can share clothes sometimes.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 10-09-2007, 04:18 PM   #21
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,482
Local Time: 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
... and you can share clothes sometimes.


i can't tell you how easy this makes some friday mornings. no need to go home and change.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 10-09-2007, 04:32 PM   #22
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Vincent Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 6,615
Local Time: 05:07 AM
Hm... respect:

"May I?"

"No!"

"Great, church is booked for 9 on Sunday, see you there."

Of course it's more of a rhetorical question as nowadays people marry each other because they want so, but still I can see better ways of showing my respect to my in-laws.

Of course, anyone who wants to do that should do it, but no one should expect it, or try to tell anyone that it's a greater sign of respect to do so.

In earlier times you would have asked the father, or even both the father and the mother, here in Germany as well. But I'm not sure when people stopped doing so.
And I think this is to be found in many cultures and countries in the "Western world" as well as in most other parts of the world.

I do know that to celebrate engagements got out of fashion sometime in the 1960's, and now some young couples start to do so again.
__________________
Vincent Vega is offline  
Old 10-09-2007, 05:12 PM   #23
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
sulawesigirl4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,416
Local Time: 11:07 PM
Sure, I get that it is symbollic. But what I don't like is what it symbollizes. Women as chattel. Then again, I've lived in countries where this is the reality, and the practice is taken literally. I can still remember the night our bus in Mali picked up two frightened young teenagers who were running away from arranged marriages in their villages. Fiance and father had arranged everything; they were bought and sold. So yeah, I don't really need this kind of tradition. I've seen the reality it symbollizes, and it is not pretty.
__________________
"I can't change the world, but I can change the world in me." - Bono

sulawesigirl4 is offline  
Old 10-09-2007, 05:33 PM   #24
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,979
Local Time: 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
Sure, I get that it is symbollic. But what I don't like is what it symbollizes. Women as chattel. Then again, I've lived in countries where this is the reality, and the practice is taken literally. I can still remember the night our bus in Mali picked up two frightened young teenagers who were running away from arranged marriages in their villages. Fiance and father had arranged everything; they were bought and sold. So yeah, I don't really need this kind of tradition. I've seen the reality it symbollizes, and it is not pretty.
That is an interesting point, especially from your perspective. And that's the issue I would have with it, obviously I am not saying that situation is directly comparable to what we are talking about here. And no guy has to spend half a year's salary on a ring, any guy who feels that he does well I would generally question why. Sure they're beautiful and all but maybe they're too symbolic of other things too-for some men and some women.

It's like the whole "giving away" thing too, when are the guys given away?
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 10-09-2007, 05:45 PM   #25
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 05:07 AM
That's interesting--so in Mali it's typically the fiance, rather than his parents, who deals directly with the fiancee's parents? I suppose that was more or less the traditional practice in the West also. But in India it's typically the parents, on both sides, who traditionally make the arrangements, so it's not unusual for the prospective groom to feel displeased with the prospect, too. That was how it worked in traditional Jewish culture also--the fiance doesn't do the asking; rather one day his parents tell him "We've arranged a match for you" while meanwhile the fiancee's parents are doing the same.

I honestly didn't even realize until now that our "tradition" was for the man to speak to the woman's father first--I always assumed he asked the woman first, so as to confirm her willingness, and only then "asked" the father. But now that I think about it, given the history of women not legally being 'persons' underlying it all, that does make sense. (Hmmm, wasn't there even a scene in Pride and Prejudice about this? It's been 20 years since I read that...)

I agree with MrsS though that really these kinds of things depend so much on the individual people involved, their particular family and relationship dynamics, and all the various unique circumstances that give these things their nuances in practice. It's odd how the understandings of traditional practices mutate over time, but that's human culture and behavior for you.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 10-09-2007, 05:53 PM   #26
Refugee
 
Bluer White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,883
Local Time: 11:07 PM
I don't think it's sexist. Maybe a guy just wants to avoid a Meet The Fockers type relationship with his new parents
__________________
Bluer White is offline  
Old 10-09-2007, 06:15 PM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 11:07 PM
I asked my mother in-law for permission. She had raised her by herself. It was not an easy thing for me to do, but I felt it important to do. My mother in-law would tell me repeatedly while I was dating my wife that her daughters do not need a husband. Her husband had run off with a nun, so I understand her dislike for my gender. I just felt it was important to do out of respect for her. I figure she would tell me no when I asked but she did not. I think she respects me for asking. If she had said no, I am not sure what I would have done.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 10-09-2007, 06:20 PM   #28
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,979
Local Time: 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I asked my mother in-law for permission. She had raised her by herself. It was not an easy thing for me to do, but I felt it important to do. My mother in-law would tell me repeatedly while I was dating my wife that her daughters do not need a husband. Her husband had run off with a nun, so I understand her dislike for my gender. I just felt it was important to do out of respect for her.
I think that's the perfect example of it depending upon the people and circumstances-and I think the circumstances made it so appropriate. Well done.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 10-09-2007, 09:41 PM   #29
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Bono's shades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The back of beyond
Posts: 5,038
Local Time: 11:07 PM
Ugh. This tradition squicks me out. I would defintely NOT want some guy asking my parents' permission to marry me. It's the 21st century and I'm an adult, not a child or a piece of property. I guess I can't see it as just "symbolic" like wearing white. There's lots of other ways to show respect to your prospective parents-in-law. Why not propose and then ask both sets of parents for their blessing rather than "permission"?
__________________
Bono's shades is offline  
Old 10-10-2007, 10:26 AM   #30
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,397
Local Time: 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
And no guy has to spend half a year's salary on a ring, any guy who feels that he does well I would generally question why. Sure they're beautiful and all but maybe they're too symbolic of other things too-for some men and some women.
you're right that no one has to do it, but there certainly is a large amount of pressure to do so. trust me... the average joe does not want to spend a few G's on a ring, but a good majority of them feel pressured into doing so. my best friend has been saving up for a ring for the past couple of months, and his girlfriend is hardly a very superficial person that would demand such a thing, but, well, i dunno... somethings just are what they are.

if there were a decree made by women today that said that guys never had to buy expensive engagement rings again, you wouldn't here a lot of guys complaining, that's for sure.
__________________

__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com