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Old 09-15-2003, 04:14 PM   #31
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Originally posted by sharky
also remember that the person who filed in the first place was a rich Republican with $1.6 million to spend. and remember that California's laws make it much easier to have a recall election.
You are right. It is all suspect because a wealthy Republican was involved. Never mind the over 2 million voters who signed petitions (35% are registered Democrats).

And California's laws make recalls sooo easy, that out of scores of attempts to recall a govenor, it has only worked once.
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Old 09-15-2003, 07:30 PM   #32
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Its not that the person is Republican, nb. My point was that any one person with the money to do so can recall a governor. If it was Governor Ronald Reagan and a rich Democrat, the results would be the same. The point I was trying to make is that money talks and this would have never happened if some guy didn't have an extra $1.6 million to toss around. Imagine what would happen if the laws made it easy to recall the president and Bill Gates didn't like the guy in office.

As for the laws in California, the laws are some of the more lenient in the country. I didn't mean that the laws make it easy, but that they make it easier to recall than most states.
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Old 09-15-2003, 07:50 PM   #33
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Money only creates visability. It still requires the action of millions to make it a reality.
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Old 09-16-2003, 12:06 AM   #34
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
It still requires the action of millions to make it a reality.
1.6 million to be exact...sorry couldn't help myself.

But in all seriousness I really don't think you can blame this on Gore. By no means am I a big fan but he didn't start some trend.
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Old 09-16-2003, 11:19 AM   #35
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Because the law, my boy, puts us into everything. It's the ultimate backstage pass, it's the new priesthood, baby. Do you know that there are more students in law school than lawyers walking the streets?
-Al Pacino, The Devil's Advocate
A few years back, a man in Houston, Texas walked into a hockey rink and slipped and fell on the ice, injuring himself. The man sued the hockey rink for over $300,000 because the staff at the hockey rink did not post a sign warning people that the ice... was slippery. The man won.

If the United States is to ever come to an end as a nation, it will not be al Qaeda, it will not be some foreign nation, it will be from within. Common sense no longer exists in America. A woman spills coffee on herself, and wins a million dollars because no one told her it was hot. Good samaritans who attempt to help people in auto accidents get sued. People have sued McDonalds because they got fat after eating at MickeyD's 4-5 times a week. It's only a matter of time before somebody sues God.
We live in a nation run by lawyers. It's a law suit world. Pissed that your clutz of a son, who couldn't run 5 feet without tripping over his own feet, didn't make the varsity basketball team? Well let's sue the coach! Didn't get in to your top college choice because of a few bad grades? Sue your teacher for a better one!
It's a world gone mad, and now it's getting into politics. Letting the political process play it's self out isn't good enough anymore. When you combine the fact that the number of ideologue's in government is growing by the day, along with the fact that America as a nation is now trigger happy with law suits, it makes for a very lethal combination. Rather than relying on the rule of law it's self, politicians are now relying on lawyers to get them what they want. A recall is a legal process according to the California state constitution. But what are the democratic ideologue's saying? "The republicans are trying to steal the Governorship just like they stole the Presidency." That's just a load of crap. The recall is a legal option in California. Now in the past, if you didn't like a law, you lobied your constituent, and attempted to change the law. Now you just sue, hoping to find some sort of loop hole, or a judge who happens to have been appointed by the party you represent, to at the very least delay a completely legal process. It was the same deal with the last election. Now I don't want to sound like a partisan ideologue myself by bringing up just democratic examples, the republicans are just as guilty. if it was a republican governor being recalled, i'm sure the exact same thing would be happening. it all just sickens me.

i'll finish my rant with a little bit of hope. it's a story about another frivolous law suit that actually succeeded. but in this case, the man who sued eventually got his in the end.

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A Charlotte, NC, man having purchased a case of very rare, very expensive cigars insured them against fire among other things. Within a month, having smoked his entire stockpile of cigars and without having made even his first premium payment on the policy, the man filed a claim against the insurance company.
In his claim, the man stated the cigars were lost "in a series of small fires". The insurance company refused to pay, citing the obvious reason that the man had consumed the cigars in the normal fashion. The man sued.... and won.
In delivering the ruling the judge agreeing that the claim was frivolous, stated nevertheless that the man held a policy from the company in which it had warranted that the cigars were insurable and also guaranteed that it would insure against fire, without defining what it considered to be "unacceptable fire", and was obligated to pay the claim. Rather than endure a lengthy and costly appeal process the insurance company accepted the ruling and paid the man $15,000 for the rare cigars he lost in "the fires".

After the man cashed the check, however, the insurance company had him arrested on 24 counts of arson. With his own insurance claim and testimony from the previous case being used against him, the man was convicted of intentionally burning his insured property and sentenced to 24 months in jail and a $24,000 fine.
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Old 09-16-2003, 11:44 AM   #36
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The ACLU's arguments in this case are beyond belief. Playing the race card, the ACLU claims that "people of color" are more likely to make mistakes using a punch card ballot system. Of course, the ACLU had no problem with the system 9 months ago.
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Old 09-16-2003, 11:51 AM   #37
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
The ACLU's arguments in this case are beyond belief. Playing the race card, the ACLU claims that "people of color" are more likely to make mistakes using a punch card ballot system. Of course, the ACLU had no problem with the system 9 months ago.
I wonder how minority voters feel being told they are not smart enough to use a punch card ballot
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Old 09-16-2003, 11:52 AM   #38
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how exactly is the American Civil Liberties Union helping civil liberties by trying to make african-americans look dumb in order to stop a recall, just because the recall would likely place a republican in office instead of a democrat? people baffle me.
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Old 09-16-2003, 11:55 AM   #39
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
just because the recall would likely place a republican in office instead of a republican?
I think you mean a Republican instead of a Democrat.
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Old 09-16-2003, 12:11 PM   #40
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yes that is what i meant... fixed it.

and what a shock... the court that delayed the recall election is the same court that declared the pledge of allegiance unconstitutional.
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Old 09-16-2003, 12:54 PM   #41
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Nope ...

Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife


I wonder how minority voters feel being told they are not smart enough to use a punch card ballot
Unfortunately this isn't the issue at all. Once again the media has oversimplified and distorted the facts. The ACLU filed the complaint on behalf of, among others, the NAACP. Yes, it does involve punchcard voting and minority disenfranchisement. That complaint and the ruling by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals can be found here:
http://www.aclu.org/VotingRights/Vot...ID=13590&c=166

The main thrust of the complaint is that outdated punchcard voting systems, which have already been decertified for use by Secretary of State Kevin Shelley, will undercount ALL votes placed in the six counties in which they would be used. Quoting from the complaint (pages 13-14)
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"At least six California counties plan to employ the technology during the special election, namely Los Angeles, Santa Clara, San Diego, Sacramento, Menodcino and Solano. These counties comprise 44% of the total electorate. They include the most populous county in the state and the county in which the state capitol is located. Plaintiffs tendered evidence showing that 40.000 voters who cast ballots in these counties would not have their votes counted because of technological defects in the pre-scored punchcard voting system. It is perhaps ironic that the sitting governor could well cast a vote on his own recall that would not be counted. Many candidates seeking to replace him would face a similar risk. Plaintiffs also allege that the affected counties contain a significantly higher number of minority voters than other counties, causing a disproportionate disenfranchisment of minority voters."
Disenfranchisement of voters is prohibited by the 14th amendment of the US Constitution. That is their case in a nutshell. Nothing to do with allegations that minorities are too stupid to vote.
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Old 09-16-2003, 01:01 PM   #42
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lefties claim the press slants too much towards the right, righties claim the press slants too much towards the left. i think we can all agree what the solution to this problem is... no more press.
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Old 09-16-2003, 01:14 PM   #43
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I'm not claiming a conservative bias here. I blame the media's natural tendencies towards sensationalism and editorial laziness.
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Old 09-16-2003, 02:30 PM   #44
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Re: Nope ...

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Originally posted by ThatGuy
Unfortunately this isn't the issue at all. Once again the media has oversimplified and distorted the facts. The ACLU filed the complaint on behalf of, among others, the NAACP.
While not cited by the Court of Appeals, during oral arguments, the ACLU did make the argument that "people of color" have a higher error rate using the punch card system and cited a "study".

In addition, the relative error rates between punch cards and other technologies are disputed.
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Old 09-16-2003, 02:57 PM   #45
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
The ACLU's arguments in this case are beyond belief. Playing the race card, the ACLU claims that "people of color" are more likely to make mistakes using a punch card ballot system.
This was obviously not the thrust of the ACLU's case if they did not include this argument in their original brief. The ACLU's argument has been that the use of outdated, DECERTIFIED voting equipment disproportionally disenfranchises minority voters. The fact that they cited a study in their oral arguments that says that people of color have more trouble with punch card ballots is playing the race card? If the study results are true, is it not valid to raise the issue when arguing against the use of punch card voting systems because they disenfranchise minority voters?

Quote:
Of course, the ACLU had no problem with the system 9 months ago.
The ACLU filed a complaint on this matter in April 2001 in regards to this issue.
http://www.aclunc.org/pressrel/010417-vote.html

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In addition, the relative error rates between punch cards and other technologies are disputed.
It was already decided that the punch card systems were obsolete and would be replaced by March 2004.
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