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Old 06-17-2002, 06:47 PM   #271
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Kingpin,

I think you're a nice guy, but saying that all other religions are not from the same God is a very 'dangerous thing to say.

The world is so big and so many cultures are in it. There was the era of colonization, where the colonists just slaughtered and enslaved people, simply because they didn't believe in the God of the colonists. They looked down on the native people. Evangelists and western politicians are still trying to spread the 'white culture' over the whole world.
Many cultures died because of that and it is still one of the first things of discrimination and fundamentalism. (I don't say that you discriminate, but some might do it, like the killed Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn, who was a Catholic and said that the Islam is a stupid culture)

Maybe Jesus was the Son of God, but I think the other prophets or Gurus(like Muhammed or Buddha) were also close to God. They just explained His existence from their own understandable point of view and I think that Jesus did the same thing. (an emic-thing, according to cultural anthropologists) But many elements of ancient cultures remained, like Christmas-trees, voo-doo in Cuba and so on.
All religions preach the same things like; don't kill anyone, love each other, be respectful and so on.

Open your mind. There is much, much more to explore...............
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Old 06-18-2002, 04:03 AM   #272
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar
What's interesting is that this topic was intended for discussions other than Christianity.

I´ve been trying to point that out a couple of times, but...


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Old 06-18-2002, 10:57 AM   #273
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*points out new Christianity post she made*
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Old 06-18-2002, 03:29 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bonoa
Kingpin,

I think you're a nice guy, but saying that all other religions are not from the same God is a very 'dangerous thing to say.

The world is so big and so many cultures are in it. There was the era of colonization, where the colonists just slaughtered and enslaved people, simply because they didn't believe in the God of the colonists. They looked down on the native people. Evangelists and western politicians are still trying to spread the 'white culture' over the whole world.
Many cultures died because of that and it is still one of the first things of discrimination and fundamentalism. (I don't say that you discriminate, but some might do it, like the killed Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn, who was a Catholic and said that the Islam is a stupid culture)

Maybe Jesus was the Son of God, but I think the other prophets or Gurus(like Muhammed or Buddha) were also close to God. They just explained His existence from their own understandable point of view and I think that Jesus did the same thing. (an emic-thing, according to cultural anthropologists) But many elements of ancient cultures remained, like Christmas-trees, voo-doo in Cuba and so on.
All religions preach the same things like; don't kill anyone, love each other, be respectful and so on.

Open your mind. There is much, much more to explore...............
Bonoa, you make some accurate observations about the problems associated with fundamentalism and discrimination. And many religions do preach the same things in their doctrine... however, just because they agree on points does not make them identical.

In my above post I stated this, but I'll summarize... thourought history the gods of the west were personal, but finite, and the gods of the east were infinite but not personal. The Christian faith is the only one that trusts in a God that is both infinite and personal. And when religions differ on the very focus of their belief system, they can hardly be said to be the same.
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Old 06-19-2002, 03:57 AM   #275
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bonoa
All religions preach the same things like; don't kill anyone, love each other, be respectful and so on.

Open your mind. There is much, much more to explore...............

thanks Bonoa, I was starting to think I´m the only one who sees this
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Old 06-19-2002, 01:08 PM   #276
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I agree that most religions preach very similar moral laws - a fact that C.S. Lewis used in "Mere Christianity" to suggest that the moral law is, in fact, a reality of our existence and not just a human invention; something like the multiplication table rather than the customs of what side of the road cars drive on.

So, in terms of the standards of behavior that religions set, one could say that they are pretty much the same.

The problem is, religion is not just concerned with the standards of behavior - or even PRIMARILY concerned with those standards. The primary concern of all religions is WHO made those standards: the nature of God.

On that subject, religions can be radically different. Some say there is no god (atheism - which requires just as much belief as theism and is thus, in my mind, simply an alternative religion). Some say there is a God (or gods), but He is an impersonal energy force. Others - most notably Judaism, Christianity - believe in a SUPREMELY personal God, and Christianity asserts that God Himself became a person.

And beyond the questions of the Creator and the standards He created, there is the question of the consequences; again, we see vastly different answers. Some religions believe there is no permanent consequence; when we die, we simply die. Some believe that the consequence manifests itself through reincarnation into an appropriate form of life. Some believe that if we're simply "good enough," we'll be accepted in Paradise. And one (Christianity) asserts that we're all doomed by our own selfishness, saved only accepting the sacrificial love God is freely giving.

Ultimately, only a handful of these faiths will be even close to being right about these questions. Take the question of His existence: either He exists, or He doesn't. Either the atheists are right, or we theists are right. The bottom line is, there IS a right answer.

So, different religions have VERY different answers to these VERY important questions. The answer DOES matter, so which religion you follow does also matter.
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Old 06-20-2002, 02:47 AM   #277
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As always my compliments go out to Bubba.

I especially liked this

Quote:
The problem is, religion is not just concerned with the standards of behavior - or even PRIMARILY concerned with those standards. The primary concern of all religions is WHO made those standards: the nature of God.
That has been one of my favorite themes lately. But it is so cool to see someone say it in a few sentences instead of trying to write a novel like I do.

I just could not agree more. But I would like add a couple addled thoughts of my own because I think its valuable to understand that the real benefits to having the right answer go beyond the personal benefits of salvation.

It matters what we think of God because what we think of him affects everything else we think about whether a person believes in Him or not. This in turn effects how we view reality and how we make our decisions. And these things have direct consequences on how we conduct our relationships with others.

Plainly, no simple moral code is enough to deal with the incredible complexities of human relationships. Human needs can't be met with a system of legal formalities regulating our interactions with one another. But the higher aspect of religion that Bubba is talking about is more than up to handling the job because when we attempt to sort out our relationship with Reality we end up also sorting out how we plan to deal with the people in our lives as part of the process. Noone can deny that this is an important endeavor or that its important to get it right.

The most important thing then about any religion is that it offers its believers a framework or mode through which we sort out our relationships to everything and everyone. Since this framework begins with a religions concept of God we end up with vastly different results when a religion starts with, say, a distant God as opposed to a personal one. The religions of distant Gods will endlessly repeat this theme of distance throughout its teachings on actual human relationships. The one that starts with a personal God will advocate much more engagement and intimacy in its teachings on relationships. The religion of a distant God which has a lot of regulations to maintain our distance from God will have much more regulation or barriers defining human interaction which impairs true sharing and intimacy. One that has a close God will have little to get in the way of closeness with all of creation.

The implications go on and on. A lot like me I guess....

Sorry

Long story short, having the right answer about God will lead to the ideal way to deal with people.
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Old 06-20-2002, 05:46 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally posted by whiteflag
The most important thing then about any religion is that it offers its believers a framework or mode through which we sort out our relationships to everything and everyone.
so true, Whiteflag!


This is from the Hidden Words by Bahá'u'lláh I wanted to share with you. I think no matter what religion we are, we can all appreciate those words of wisdome.


O SON OF MAN!
I loved thy creation, hence I created thee. Wherefore, do thou love Me, that I may name thy name and fill thy soul with the spirit of life.




O SON OF BEING!
Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.




O SON OF BEING!
Thy Paradise is My love; thy heavenly home, reunion with Me. Enter therein and tarry not. This is that which hath been destined for thee in Our kingdom above and Our exalted dominion.
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Old 06-20-2002, 10:54 AM   #279
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I'll probably be criticized as too nit-picky, but, here it goes...

AM, I do appreciate the sentiment in which you posted, and I find nothing wrong with the first and third verses. That said, I disagree with the second verse:

Quote:
Originally posted by AM
O SON OF BEING!
Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
Put simply, Christianity asserts that God loves us unconditionally, that He loved us while we were unlovable:

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. - Romans 5:8

We are capable of love precisely because He first loved us.

...and while that's certainly not a minor point, it doesn't diminish the spirit in which you posted.

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Old 06-20-2002, 11:33 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba
Put simply, Christianity asserts that God loves us unconditionally, that He loved us while we were unlovable:

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. - Romans 5:8

We are capable of love precisely because He first loved us.

...and while that's certainly not a minor point, it doesn't diminish the spirit in which you posted.
Bubba, it took me a while to understand this quote as well. It´s a bit confusing.

It does not mean that God only loves us when we love him. No! God loves us whatever we do! Whoever we are! But we are not able to feel His love, recognize His love until we recognize God and love him. Does this makes sence to you
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Old 06-20-2002, 11:48 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally posted by AM


Bubba, it took me a while to understand this quote as well. It´s a bit confusing.

It does not mean that God only loves us when we love him. No! God loves us whatever we do! Whoever we are! But we are not able to feel His love, recognize His love until we recognize God and love him. Does this makes sence to you
Certainly, it makes sense; and I believe "If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee," can DEFINITELY be interpreted that way, on its own. However, the first sentence, "Love Me, that I may love thee," does imply otherwise.

At the very least, it's ambigious, and Christianity is fairly clear about God's love being unconditional, and I just wanted to make sure that fact was known.

Having said that, I see no problem in letting this thread continue discussing other religions in general.

Bubba
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Old 06-20-2002, 12:06 PM   #282
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Just wanted to say this is an interesting conversation and I've been reading along. I dont have much time to be able to contribute daily, but I agree with everything Bubba is saying so eloquently.
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Old 06-22-2002, 09:22 AM   #283
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I was wondering, what holidays do you all celebrate here? The other religions I mean, not Christianity, everyone knows all about them already. I'll start. In order of most important:
My birthday(June 24)
Halloween(October 31)
Waltpurgisnacht day(April 30)

Waltpurgisnacht day is the anniversary of the Church of Satan (CoS). Although Im not a member, nor do I like churches, the holiday is still fun. Waltpurgisnacht day is a day of indulgence for Satanists.
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Old 06-22-2002, 04:02 PM   #284
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there are quite a few holy days in the bahai faith.

Feast of Naw-Rúz March 21
Naw-Ruz is the Baha’i New Year. It coincides with the first day of spring.

First Day of Ridvan April 21 (Declaration of Baha'u'llah, 1863, at 3 pm)
For twelve days, April 21 to May 2, Baha'is celebrate the period in 1863 when Baha'u'llah, the Prophet-Founder of the Baha'i Faith resided in a garden in Baghdad which He called "the Garden of Ridvan." During this period Baha'u'llah proclaimed his mission as God's messenger for this age.

Ninth Day of Ridván April 29

Twelfth Day of Ridván May 2

Declaration of The Báb, 1844 May 23 (at about two hours after sunset)
May 23, 1844 marks the beginnings of the Bahá'í Faith in Shiraz, Persia (Iran). The Bab, which means the "Gate", proclaimed on that date that He was not only the Founder of an independent religion, but also the Herald of a new and greater Prophet or Messenger of God, Who would usher in an age of peace for all mankind.

Ascension of Baha'u'llah, 1892 May 29 (at 3 am)
Baha'u'llah, Prophet-Founder of the Baha'i Faith, passed away in 1892 near Akka, Palastine (Israel).

Martyrdom of The Bab, 1850 July 9 (at noon)
On July 9, Baha'is commemorate the execution of the Bab, Prophet-Herald of the Baha'i Faith, on that date in 1850 in Tabriz, Persia (Iran).

Birth of The Bab, 1819 October 20
October 20 The anniversary of the birth of the Báb Baha'is commemorate the birth of the Bab (the "Gate") the Prophet-Herald of the Baha'i Faith. The Bab was born in 1819 in Shiraz, Iran.

Birth of Baha'u'llah, 1817 November 12
November 12 The anniversary of the birth of Baha'u'llah Baha'is commemorate the birth of Baha'u'llah, the Prophet-Founder of the Baha'i Faith. Baha'u'llah was born in 1817 in Tehran, Iran.



there are a few more, but those are the most holy ones
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Old 06-30-2002, 09:43 PM   #285
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I don't want this thread to die. I do have one little question for the Christians out there. So Jesus loves everyone? Does that mean that he loves this "Devil" you all speak of? Does he love Judas? Does he love Osama bin Laden? Rapists? Child molesters? Me?
Just wanted to know.

HS!
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