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Old 06-03-2002, 07:27 PM   #241
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I'm actually a catholic, but I've had a lot of experiences of the supernatural.My mother is from Indonesia and wether you are Muslim (like my grandmother), Christian, Buddhist or Hindu, everybody believes in "guna guna", the so-called spiritual world. I kinda grew up with it.
Myself, I believe in reincarnation. I can remember certain things, like places and eras I've never been. I think this can be traced back to former lives. (Ican't tell you much about this over the Internet).

For the rest...I STILL HAVEN'T FOUND WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR!!!
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Old 06-04-2002, 12:52 AM   #242
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DancingBarefoot,

I can't speak for Catholics, but my grandparents (God rest their souls) were Ukranian Orthodox and they didn't say those lines either.

As a matter of fact, I went to Sunday school at their church once, and being brought up Protestant. I was the only one who said the extra lines!

Very embarrasing.

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Old 06-04-2002, 01:07 AM   #243
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Bonoa,

You said that your grandma was an Indonesian Muslim? It turns out that I'm really curious about Asian Muslims. No disrespect to the many orthodox Muslims in that region, but would you say that most Indonesian Muslims are more cultural Muslims than orthodox ones? Or is there really no real difference?

Please ignore me if you don't feel qualified to answer.
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Old 06-04-2002, 12:23 PM   #244
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Incidentally, to anyone who is saying that all versions of God are the same (Allah, Yahweh, God, etc. etc.) or that all religions are the same... that's simply incorrect.

The Judeo-Christian God is the only God that is both infinite and personal.

The Eastern gods (islam, buddhism, hinduism) are all infinite, but they do not deal with people on a personal level. There is no intimate relationship with humans, no communication on a personal level.

The Western gods (roman, greek, nordic, celtic) were all personal, and came in contact with people, yet were finite, and limited in their capability and power.

So to say that all gods are the same is simply incorrect. And to say that all religions are the same is also false, for how can they be the same when the varying basis of their beliefs are fundamentally and dramatically different.

I thought of other things to say along the way, but Bubba said them more articulately than I could have.
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Old 06-04-2002, 12:33 PM   #245
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There are other differences in the varying world religions, the most significant being the basic system of redemption, or reconciliation with God.

All (as far as I am aware) religions are based upon man's quest to find and appease God... to become good enough in his eyes. This is often achieved through good actions, or ritualistic behaviour, or following strict guidelines of behaviour, etc. But the bottom line is man, trying to get to God, trying to bridge the gap so we will not suffer the wrath of that God, but instead be in their favor.

Christianity is radically different from this. The basic system of Chrisitanity says that while all man are created in the image of God, and loved immensely by God, we are humans with an inherent selfish nature, a self-loving nature that separates us from God. We can't ever be good enough for God, or become worthy. But since HE loved us so much, he made the motion, and He came to us. He sent His son to earth, who died in our place... bridging that gap between us and God. There's obviously more detail in that, but I won't get into it now.

But the important point is, religion is about man's search for God... and Christianity is about God's search for man. That difference is huge... it is one that many Christians themselves miss. They spend their lives focused on good works, always feeling guilty, not understanding that they can relax and enjoy life, because the Bible that they believe in teaches that God has already done the difficult stuff, and all they have to do is say thank you.
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Old 06-04-2002, 04:27 PM   #246
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Surely Kingpin is a man among men
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Old 06-04-2002, 08:21 PM   #247
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Just to let you know I will be going away to music camp tomorrow for 10 days. If there is anything anyone has to ask me you will have to wait.
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Old 06-05-2002, 12:25 AM   #248
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You the man, Kingpin!

Mind if I add my two cents?

This is the how I would put the Christian concept kingpin is talking about. Man is finite, therefore he cannot bridge that gap between himself and God. From our limited standpoint/perception the divide seems so infinite that it is easy to believe that such a divide could not ever be bridged even by God. Its even easy to believe that we are too lowly to be close to God. But God, who is infinite, can do the impossible. God who All-Powerful is not overwhelmed by the divide. And God who is All-knowing knows not just how bad we are and how much we deserve punishment, he also knows how good we are. For Him it must be much easier than it is for us to believe, that we deserve a place at his "table" and being the Ruler of The Universe, he damn well sure could devise a Holy Means for that to come to pass!


And BTW, kingpin, don't sell yourself short. I don't think Bubba could have said what you said any better. Wow!

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Old 06-05-2002, 12:49 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally posted by whiteflag
And BTW, kingpin, don't sell yourself short. I don't think Bubba could have said what you said any better. Wow!

Nope, I couldn't.

VERY well said, kingpin.
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Old 06-05-2002, 01:30 AM   #250
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Kingpin,

I hope I am not misunderstanding you here but I have disagree with you on one thing only. I agree that many Christians are too uptight and unsure of their own salvation and that belief and gratitude are the main things expected of Christians. But by no means are they all thats expected. I believe that if our faith is truly alive, works will naturally follow and that our faith has no meaning if it helps noone but ourselves. We must find the balance and to do that we must trust in God's system which only works if we do these two things 1) first tend to Faith and allow it to bear its fruit, Works, without rushing things along and 2)Use our works as a measure of the health of our faith knowing that no works or too much reliance on them is a sign of an unhealthy faith.
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Old 06-05-2002, 12:19 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally posted by KingPin
Christianity is about God's search for man.
I really liked that!
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Old 06-05-2002, 12:33 PM   #252
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Whiteflag, I agree with you, I didn't think I said anything contrary in my post. I was simply saying many Christians forget that we as people simply can't earn our way into eternal life, but God has offered to bring us in if we want.

Thanks for the kind words, everyone.
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Old 06-05-2002, 02:05 PM   #253
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whenever you return

I have a question for ravenstar whenever she may return.

Mothers are the most loving people in the world, generally. They would do anything for their children and sometimes a lot of what they do is in no way beneficial to them.
They would sacrifice anything fot their children, thats just how unconditional their love is.
You say you love to help people because it makes you feel good or has some benefit for you ,but assuming you ever become a mother or that there are mothers who think like you and who are "satanists" what is the limit of what they do for their children?
I mean, I've heard moving stories of mothers laying down their lives so their children may live.

If you saw your child about to get hit by a bus would you jump and push him/her out of the way?
Since you don't believe in the soul you will just die and thats it. There is absolutley no benefit.

Or since you don't really believe in that unconditional, selfless love would you simply watch as the child's life came to an end?

thank-you for your time
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Old 06-06-2002, 10:15 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally posted by KingPin
But the important point is, religion is about man's search for God... and Christianity is about God's search for man.
how can you say that Christianity is about Godīs search for man?????

God created us, and letīs be honest, he doesnīt need us.

For me, any religion, not just Christianity!!!, is about God giving us a hand to find him. Without religion, without the prophets he sends to us, without the books he reveils to us, we were not able to recognize God.
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Old 06-06-2002, 10:33 AM   #255
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you didn't interpret kingpins post correctly.
But I'll let him deal with it.
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