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Old 05-16-2002, 06:13 PM   #196
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Raven-
You cause me a bit of concern.
Just a bit.

Read you.

diamond

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[This message has been edited by diamond (edited 05-16-2002).]
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Old 05-16-2002, 06:37 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond:

Read you.
Why are you using Rono's phrase?

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Old 05-16-2002, 06:43 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond:

Read you.
Why are you using Rono's phrase?

I kiped it.
I have always love Rono and that line.
If he wants it back I will hand it over.
Read you brother 80s.

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Old 05-16-2002, 07:35 PM   #199
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read you?

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Tá mé íseal.
Tá mé ard.
Tá mé tanaí.
Tá mé ramhar.
Tá mé bean.
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Old 05-16-2002, 10:44 PM   #200
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No, read ME.
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Old 05-16-2002, 10:58 PM   #201
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Ravenstar,
Do Satanists forgive others?
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Old 05-16-2002, 11:02 PM   #202
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Point XXII: Do not answer questions about forgiveness(?)
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Old 05-17-2002, 07:53 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar:
read you?


Yea.
Verily.

DB9


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Old 05-20-2002, 03:47 AM   #204
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80's, it would depend on what they did.

P.s I've been away all weekend. Thats why I didnt get a chance to respond.

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Old 05-20-2002, 06:28 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar:
bubba, first of all, keep in mind that the 21 satanic points are from the ONA, which is a fundamentalist satanic group. I am a modern satanist. I do agree with most of the points though just in a different way than other satanist might. Most of modern Satanism is all about symbolism and metephors. I also do not believe in souls so losing something I dont think exists has no effect what so ever on me.

Once again, Ravenstar, could you explain exactly how you interpret these points? What do they mean to you? Which ones do you agree with and which ones do you not agree with? Surely, since you've professed to be a member of this religion, you would have formed some understanding of what they mean to you and therefore could offer some explanation towards the questions I have asked. I am still looking for answers to some of my earlier questions.


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Old 05-20-2002, 07:26 PM   #206
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I - Respect not pity or weakness, for they are a disease which makes sick the strong

Agree. This one is to the point so I don't have to explain it

II - Test always your strength, for therein lies success

Neutral. Sure, your strengths assures succes, but if you test your weaknesses they will become your strengtha

III- Seek happiness in victory - but never in peace

Neutral. Victory for me means peace.

IV - Enjoy a short rest, better than a long

Agree. This one is straight forward

V - Come as a reaper, for thus you shall sow

Neutral.

VI - Never love anything so much you cannot see it die

Agree.

VII - Build not upon sand but upon rock, and build not for today or yesterday but for all time

Agree. This isnt just for physical things but for stuff like friendship, etc

VIII - Strive ever for more, for conquest is never done

Neutral. I agree with the first part.

IX - And die rather than submit

Agree.

X - Forge not works of art but swords of death, for therein lies great art

Disagree.

XI - Learn to raise yourself above yourself so can triumph over all

Agree.

XII - The blood of the living makes good
fertilizer for the seeds of the new

Agree. Let the old teach the new.

XIII - He who stands atop the highest pyrimad of skulls can see the furthest

Agree. I don't look at skulls as dead people but more as rocks. The pyramid is a strong shape so it is goos to climb it. Seeing the furthest means succes in life.

XIV - Discard not love but treat it as an imposter, but ever be just

Disagree.

XV - All that is great is built upon sorrow

Disagree.

XVI - Strive not only forward, but upwards for greatness lies in the highest

Agree. Similar to the pyramid one.

XVII - Come as a fresh strong wind that breaks yet also creates

Agree. Break barriers that hold back humanity, create bridges to help yourself and loved ones.

XVIII - Let love of life be a goal but let your highest goal be greatness

Agree.

XIX - Nothing is beautiful except man: but most beautiful of all is woman

AGREE! We females rock.

XX - Regect all illusion and lies, for they hinder the strong

Agree.

XXI - What does not kill, makes stronger

Agree.


I think I missed some of your earlier questions, could you post them again.


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Old 05-20-2002, 08:02 PM   #207
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Achtung Bubba:

If you get a chance, email me at U2Bama@u2email.com. Thanks.

~U2Alabama
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Old 05-21-2002, 03:07 AM   #208
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I'm on an actual vacation, hence, my lack of replies in this thread. (Also, I tried to answer a couple comments before I left, but the reply was never posted, apparently.)

Three points, all of which now seem fairly random as this thread is moving on to other things...

1. 80s, thanks for you kind words.

2. Bama: nope, not going out west. I'm still attending grad school in Pittsburgh, so I'll probably limit myself to Auburn's home games against LSWho and Georgia.

However, I AM going to the SEC Baseball Tournament in Hoover this week/weekend, and it should be a lot of fun.

3. I wanted to comment about quite a few of the Satanic Points, most of which I strongly disagree with. (I particularly disagree with the emphasis on victory, strength, and pride.) But, I don't have too much time to write, so I will focus on the one point I actually agree with completely:

VII - Build not upon sand but upon rock, and build not for today or yesterday but for all time

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ also agrees with the notion of storing your treasures where they cannot be destroyed.

(I'm without my usual resources, so if somebody asks, I'll post the actual verses another time. Or, if 80s or another Christian can post the verses, I'd greatly appreciate it.)

The difference, I believe, is that the Satanic points presume that it's possible to actually create something permanent in this world. That JUST isn't the case. Monuments of stone and even a name in the annals of history crumble, fade, and disappear. And even if your work lasts (for a while), it does you no good in the grave.

There is but one thing of genuine, eternal permanence that an individual is responsible for: the human soul.

And, to quote Christ again, what does it matter if a man gains EVERYTHING but loses his soul in the process?

(And, by implication, if a man DOES preserve his soul, what does it matter if he loses everything else? You were going to lose everything else, either way.)
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Old 05-21-2002, 03:34 AM   #209
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bubba, first of all, keep in mind that the 21 satanic points are from the ONA, which is a fundamentalist satanic group. I am a modern satanist. I do agree with most of the points though just in a different way than other satanist might. Most of modern Satanism is all about symbolism and metephors. I also do not believe in souls so losing something I dont think exists has no effect what so ever on me.

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Old 05-21-2002, 01:27 PM   #210
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Thanks Ravenstar for taking the time to answer that. The other questions I asked earlier are in bold below.

Quote:
Originally posted by babble:


For instance you say that you would gain nothing from helping an enemy and therefore I gather that you would not help this person, this enemy, even if their life depended upon your aid. Therefore, one naturally wonders what the definition of an enemy would be, someone who's life,according to Satanism, is apparantly not worth saving. Would an enemy be someone who has tried to actually kill you or a friend or family, or could an enemy be someone that you find obnoxious or that has lied to you? You see, enemy is quite an ambiguous word that could be applied to someone who has committed a wide spectrum of offenses.

Then another point that has been brought up is to what extent "no mercy" is applied. No mercy until the death of the offender? And what would that person have to do to offend to the point of being offered no mercy? This term "no mercy" is also quite ambiguous.

Also you pointed out that if the person offends you and you tell them to stop but they continue then you follow rule 11 and "destroy" him/her. By destroy do you mean kill (as that is what usually comes to mind when the word destroy is mentioned) and if so does that mean Satanism advocates murder? You must admit many of these things do sound very controversial. The key seems to be in the interpretation.

Also I might point out that rule 11 appears to have nothing to do with someone offending you in your lair but if someone bothers you out in open territory. And what does it mean by "bother" anyway?
You see, the Satanist points and rules are choke-full of very ambiguous terms and words that appear to reap very dire consequences and it seems to me to be vital to understand what these things mean. So my question is how do you, Ravenstar, interpret "enemy" and "no mercy" and "destroy" and even "bother"? How do you define these terms according to your religion? Are there official interpretations?
I have some more questions/comments but I'll post those later since I've asked you so much already. And maybe your answers to some of the above questions will clear up some of the others I have.
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