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Old 05-14-2002, 07:42 PM   #181
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you are correct

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Old 05-14-2002, 08:25 PM   #182
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This thread is pretty incredible I guess I should say right away that I am a Christian and I feel that if the Lord Jesus Christ didn't die for me I would have no reason not to commit any crimes or whatever . I believe that what He did for me should make me feel compassion for other's who can not or will not believe in Him.

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Old 05-15-2002, 08:31 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar:
you are correct

You still didnt answer my question:

Youre aversion to murder has more to do with your wish to not go to jail than on any moral basis??

If thats the case there's a million ways to kill without getting caught, what stops you?


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Old 05-15-2002, 10:23 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally posted by gabrielvox:
You still didnt answer my question:

Youre aversion to murder has more to do with your wish to not go to jail than on any moral basis??

If thats the case there's a million ways to kill without getting caught, what stops you?

Yeah, Gabe, this is kind of what I was trying to get at. If you really hold to the tenets of Satanism put forth here, if someone is in your lair (i'm not totally sure what constitutes a lair) and they annoy you, not only can you treat them without mercy, but you should treat them without mercy. I would say that stopping short of killing someone is probably showing them mercy, and not being as cruel as possible. Why not add another skull to your pyramid? The only reason is that you could be prosecuted by the law. But if you can get away with it, everything in Satanism says go ahead and kill the person for annoying you.
FYI, Gabriel, I don't think Ravenstar believes in an actual Satan, just what he represents in the Bible. Here's what Ravenstar originally said about Satanism:

Quote:
Im an atheistic satanist. We view satan as a symbol of the carnal and natural side of human nature as noted in the nine satanic statements. We are our own god, creating our own good and evil. We dont harm children. No animal sacrifices. Children and animals are important to satanist because they accept their natural side the most.
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Old 05-15-2002, 10:35 AM   #185
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Its all kinda weird and vaguely saddening, to me.

But then again so was the sentiment expressed that without a belief in Jesus there would be little grounds for not killing one's fellow man.

There are plenty of atheists who wouldnt dream of killing another human, so what stops them? Surely not simply the threat of incarceration??

I don't think we need a religion per se to be good. Its common sense. You want to live. Dont kill others, they want to live too.

Gabriel
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Old 05-15-2002, 10:59 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally posted by gabrielvox:
You still didnt answer my question:

Youre aversion to murder has more to do with your wish to not go to jail than on any moral basis??

If thats the case there's a million ways to kill without getting caught, what stops you?

Yeah, Gabe, this is kind of what I was trying to get at. If you really hold to the tenets of Satanism put forth here, if someone is in your lair (i'm not totally sure what constitutes a lair) and they annoy you, not only can you treat them without mercy, but you should treat them without mercy. I would say that stopping short of killing someone is probably showing them mercy, and not being as cruel as possible. Why not add another skull to your pyramid? The only reason is that you could be prosecuted by the law. But if you can get away with it, everything in Satanism says go ahead and kill the person for annoying you.
FYI, Gabriel, I don't think Ravenstar believes in an actual Satan, just what he represents in the Bible. Here's what Ravenstar originally said about Satanism:

Quote:
Im an atheistic satanist. We view satan as a symbol of the carnal and natural side of human nature as noted in the nine satanic statements. We are our own god, creating our own good and evil. We dont harm children. No animal sacrifices. Children and animals are important to satanist because they accept their natural side the most.
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Old 05-15-2002, 04:06 PM   #187
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I wouldn't kill someone because I don't need to kill anyone.

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Old 05-15-2002, 04:39 PM   #188
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RavenStar,
I have a question. Do Satanists forgive others?

[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 05-15-2002).]
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Old 05-15-2002, 09:08 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase:
If you really hold to the tenets of Satanism put forth here, if someone is in your lair (i'm not totally sure what constitutes a lair) and they annoy you, not only can you treat them without mercy, but you should treat them without mercy. I would say that stopping short of killing someone is probably showing them mercy, and not being as cruel as possible. Why not add another skull to your pyramid? The only reason is that you could be prosecuted by the law. But if you can get away with it, everything in Satanism says go ahead and kill the person for annoying you.
Perhaps RavenStar is not a fundamentalist Satanist?

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Old 05-16-2002, 01:25 AM   #190
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Ravenstar,
I don't mean to offend you but it seems that some of your answers to some quite valid questions are evasive and tell us very little about what Satanists as a whole (or even you yourself) believe. Perhaps the problem in understanding Satanism as a whole is that the Satanic creeds, rules, points, etc. can be interpreted however the individual Satanist chooses to interpret them (i.e. what determines an enemy and to what extent showing no mercy means)? It is a bit confusing.

For instance you say that you would gain nothing from helping an enemy and therefore I gather that you would not help this person, this enemy, even if their life depended upon your aid. Therefore, one naturally wonders what the definition of an enemy would be, someone who's life,according to Satanism, is apparantly not worth saving. Would an enemy be someone who has tried to actually kill you or a friend or family, or could an enemy be someone that you find obnoxious or that has lied to you. You see, enemy is quite an ambiguous word that could be applied to someone who has committed a wide spectrum of offenses.

Then another point that has been brought up is to what extent "no mercy" is applied. No mercy until the death of the offender? And what would that person have to do to offend to the point of being offered no mercy? This term "no mercy" is also quite ambiguous.

Also you pointed out that if the person offends you and you tell them to stop but they continue then you follow rule 11 and "destroy" him/her. By destroy do you mean kill (as that is what usually comes to mind when the word destroy is mentioned) and if so does that mean Satanism advocates murder? You must admit many of these things do sound very controversial. The key seems to be in the interpretation.

Also I might point out that rule 11 appears to have nothing to do with someone offending you in your lair but if someone bothers you out in open territory. And what does it mean by "bother" anyway?
Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar:
XI When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
You see, the Satanist points and rules are choke-full of very ambiguous terms and words that appear to reap very dire consequences and it seems to me to be vital to understand what these things mean. So my question is how do you, Ravenstar, interpret "enemy" and "no mercy" and "destroy" and even "bother"? How do you define these terms according to your religion? Are there official interpretations?

Also I am wondering, and maybe it has been asked before (this thread is so long I can't remember) but do Satanists have meetings/group gatherings or is it just a personal thing?
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Old 05-16-2002, 07:26 AM   #191
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babble, I'll have to think about your first question for awhile. But I'll answer your last one. Some Satanist have group meetings, others don't. For me, having group meetings would be difficult, almost every Satanist has thier own interpretation of Satanism. That was Anton LaVey's point when he wrote the Satanic bible. He didb't write it for us to live by, he wrote it more as a starting point. That is one of the main points of Satanism IMO, individualism.

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Old 05-16-2002, 10:40 AM   #192
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Ravenstar,
Do Satanists forgive others?
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Old 05-16-2002, 10:47 AM   #193
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It sounds like Anton LaVey just read Atlas Shrugged one too many times.

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Old 05-16-2002, 05:05 PM   #194
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Ravenstar,
Thank you for answering my last question. I was wondering about that because I don't see how religious meetings/gatherings would really be necessary for Satanists as it is a self-centered religion. Why do some Satanists choose to have religious gatherings?

Well, this has all been quite interesting. I look forward to your further replies.
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Old 05-16-2002, 06:05 PM   #195
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U2bama, I'm a modern Satanist
babble, I think some Satanist choose religious gathering for information. If you perform a ritual with someone else, you may learn something, you may not.

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