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Old 06-06-2002, 11:41 AM   #1
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Oreilly Article On Bono & Africa

The following is an article written by political/news commentator Bill O'reilly detailing the problems in Africa and Bono's intentions. I posted an article written by Rush Limbaugh last week based on the same subject. Although I thought that Limbaugh's article made some valid points(to which most of you disagreed), you may find this one more objective, level-headed and fair. Look forward to discussing the article with all of you.


What does Bono want from us?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: June 6, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com


You have to love this guy Bono. The lead singer for U2 really wants to help the world, and I admire that. His trip to Africa with Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill was a great photo opportunity for both men. But behind the glittering 8-by-10s, Africa is still a major mess.

The problem is that in most African countries there is no infrastructure. Tribalism has crippled coordinated attempts to improve the standard of living for the 800 million or so people who live there. Life expectancy on the continent is the lowest in the world Ė about 50 years Ė and the main reason is because ancient hatreds rule, cooperation among people even in the same nation is rare.

Bono and many others want the United States to send more money to Africa. The New York Times screams that America sends less aid than any other developed area. On a per capita basis Canada sends more and so does Europe.

But in real dollars America has been a generous player in Bono's band. In the past 25 years, American taxpayers have contributed almost 40 billion dollars to help Africans. And what do we have to show for our money?

Nothing, that's what.

Now some of that is our fault. We sent millions to brutal dictators to keep them out of the Soviet orbit. We bribed killers so they wouldn't become commies. But it didn't matter whether they embraced Leninism because thieves are thieves no matter what ideology they spout. Much of the aid that America sent to Africa went directly into the bank accounts of the Robert Mugabes of the world. Thugs, pure and simple.

Bono and some American media people would have us believe that things are different now, that the African governments are ready to "evolve" as they say in California. Well I'm from Missouri on this one: Show me.

One of the biggest fallacies going is that America can afford to send a lot more money to Africa. American workers are taxed to the hilt and the war on terror is costing the U.S. about 2 billion dollars a month. That's real money Ė not loans or credit.

In case Bono and everyone else with their hands out haven't noticed, America is protecting the world here. We are hunting down terrorists and rebuilding pathetic countries like Afghanistan. It is enormously expensive.

Should we rebuild other pathetic countries in Africa? The answer is no. But we can help Africans help themselves Ė if they stop the nonsense.

First off, all American aid should go toward specific projects overseen by the American Embassy in the country receiving our money. If Nigeria needs a highway, then American officials should oversee the project. If South Africa needs money for AIDS education, then Americans should sign off on the nature of that education.

With all due respect to Bono and other concerned rich guys, most Americans work hard to pay their taxes and having aid money stolen by greedy thugs is not only insulting, it is criminal. The days of wine and roses are over for corrupt, coup-installed "generals." Do it our way or you don't get the highway.

A few years ago another Irish rock guy, Bob Geldof, put on a big benefit to help victims of a terrible African famine. Millions poured in. Did the money get to the starving people? Not according to many associated with the project. The African bureaucracy overwhelmed Geldof's good intentions.

So I hope Bono and Secretary O'Neill had a nice time running around Africa. It is a fascinating place to visit. But you wouldn't want to live there because it is so easy to die. Millions of Americans would like to help improve that situation. But African nations must stop the chaos and corruption and begin to help themselves. That is the only way things will ever get better over there and everybody should know it. You too, Bono.
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Old 06-06-2002, 12:02 PM   #2
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Hmm.
I think Brother O Rielly is missing the pt.
I still like him tho.

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Old 06-06-2002, 12:08 PM   #3
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Re: Oreilly Article On Bono & Africa

Quote:
Originally posted by MBH

Bono and some American media people would have us believe that things are different now, that the African governments are ready to "evolve" as they say in California. Well I'm from Missouri on this one: Show me.
wasn't that the point of the Africa trip? For Bono to show O'Neill where aid is working?
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Old 06-06-2002, 12:11 PM   #4
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Originally posted by diamond

I think Brother O Rielly is missing the pt.
Diamond
Agreed.

A more spot-on editorial by Jeffrey Sachs appears in today's issue of the Wall Street Journal.
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Old 06-06-2002, 12:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Hmm.
I think Brother O Rielly is missing the pt.
I still like him tho.

Diamond
O'reilly is not missing the point. He totally understands it and has made an objective opinion on the issue. He is not an extreme conservative like Limbaugh who constantly bashes liberals and enjoys putting down others. He makes his decisions and opinions on the facts and he totally has it right on this issue. Face it: Bono has good intentions but his methods have not worked in the past(fact) and most likely will not work in the future. Although his intentions are in the right place, his methods are not.
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Old 06-06-2002, 12:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by MBH


O'reilly is not missing the point. He totally understands it and has made an objective opinion on the issue. He is not an extreme conservative like Limbaugh who constantly bashes liberals and enjoys putting down others. He makes his decisions and opinions on the facts and he totally has it right on this issue. Face it: Bono has good intentions but his methods have not worked in the past(fact) and most likely will not work in the future. Although his intentions are in the right place, his methods are not.
MBH-
What I understand is..that GW is willing to help Bono a insomuch as the money is accounted for and being well spent.
In the past this WAS NOT the case-it was more like 'throw gobs of money at the problem out of guilt w/no accountabilty'.
Recently Bono even said that was WRONG.
Bill O missed this pt. tho.

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Old 06-06-2002, 12:36 PM   #7
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Sounds like OíReilly and MBH are both missing the point.
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Old 06-06-2002, 02:26 PM   #8
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I think I know the true reason.. Deep in the depths of Bono's mind on this Africa Aid. He gave us a clue into what this was really about in one of his quotes.. It is something that is spectrum wide and extends beyond just the Africa Aid situation, but I haven't the time to begin this discussion.

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Old 06-06-2002, 02:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonite
is something that is spectrum wide and extends beyond just the Africa Aid situation, but I haven't the time to begin this discussion.

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are you discussing his plan to colonize the african continent with the newcomers ?
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Old 06-06-2002, 02:55 PM   #10
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I think if there is one thing missing from the Public Relations standpoint on the recent trip to Africa and it's subsequent media coverage, it's that IN THE FUTURE that money is NOT going to fall into the wrong hands. If the powers that be can convince the average Americans of that fact, there will be overwhelming support. Most of the criticisms I have read so far ( be it from the general pubic or the media) are not well informed enought to realize this. And that is frustrating.

I liked most of Bill O'Reilley's article for the most part tho.

Do you know what I wish? For Bono to be on Bill O'Reilly. I think Bono could stand his own and MUCH MORE. He'd probably never do it tho...

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Old 06-06-2002, 04:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
Sounds like OíReilly and MBH are both missing the point.
]

Sula,
You are so predictable. I have never seen you disagree with ANYTHING that U2 or Bono does. (I'm sure you have, I just haven't witnessed it). I constantly bring up well-thought, FACTUAL statements and evidence to the contrary and you always seem to disagree. That is your perogative. I acknowledged that many political pundits(ie Limbaugh) are somewhat off-base and others just simply wanna take shots at Bono. However, much of what is written by Oreilly(et al) is a fact: much money has been wasted in 3rd world nations and it must change. Granted, Bono is doing a good thing and he has a big heart; however, you simply seem to ignore the obvious. I am middle of the road when it comes to politics; I try to view both sides objectively and fairly and make a cognizant opinion based on the facts(as I'm sure you do as well). However, the facts cannot be ignored simply because you disagree with something. You come across as the stereotypical liberal who gets annoyed and ignores the facts for the sake of a political point of view.
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Old 06-06-2002, 04:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by oktobergirl
I think if there is one thing missing from the Public Relations standpoint on the recent trip to Africa and it's subsequent media coverage, it's that IN THE FUTURE that money is NOT going to fall into the wrong hands. If the powers that be can convince the average Americans of that fact, there will be overwhelming support. Most of the criticisms I have read so far ( be it from the general pubic or the media) are not well informed enought to realize this. And that is frustrating.

I liked most of Bill O'Reilley's article for the most part tho.

Do you know what I wish? For Bono to be on Bill O'Reilly. I think Bono could stand his own and MUCH MORE. He'd probably never do it tho...

Wasn't Bono on Oreilly back in November of 2001(the 20th or 21st I believe, prior to U2's performance on Jay Leno)? If you or anyone else has details about this, please pass it on. Thanks.
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Old 06-06-2002, 04:56 PM   #13
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Originally posted by MBH
Sula,
You are so predictable. I have never seen you disagree with ANYTHING that U2 or Bono does. (I'm sure you have, I just haven't witnessed it). I constantly bring up well-thought, FACTUAL statements and evidence to the contrary and you always seem to disagree. That is your perogative. I acknowledged that many political pundits(ie Limbaugh) are somewhat off-base and others just simply wanna take shots at Bono. However, much of what is written by Oreilly(et al) is a fact: much money has been wasted in 3rd world nations and it must change. Granted, Bono is doing a good thing and he has a big heart; however, you simply seem to ignore the obvious. I am middle of the road when it comes to politics; I try to view both sides objectively and fairly and make a cognizant opinion based on the facts(as I'm sure you do as well). However, the facts cannot be ignored simply because you disagree with something. You come across as the stereotypical liberal who gets annoyed and ignores the facts for the sake of a political point of view.
MBH, you are also extremely predictable. You seem to revel in trying to stir up controversy simply for the sake of controversy. (which may also be merely my misunderstanding, but thatís how it looks). It is also your prerogative to do so of course, but donít be surprised when people disagree with you.

Ok, so I do happen to agree with a lot of what the members of U2 have to say, Bono in particular. Does that mean I donít think for myself, or does it mean that perhaps I just happen to concur with many of their views? I would say itís the latter, and I would hope that Iím in the best position to judge. Furthermore, I find it highly amusing that you are labeling me as a ďstereotypicalĒ liberal, when Iím actually someone who generally votes Republican and holds pretty conservative views on a number of issues. I have studied economics and at an institution that holds capitalism and free market wisdom to be practically gospel, so believe me that when I disagree with you on the issues surrounding debt relief and aid, I am not doing so out of a liberal biased vacuum.

What I disagree with is your insistence on putting Bonoís position into this little box labeled ďaid.Ē What I have gleaned from articles and comments and interviews is that, yes he is definitely pushing for continued aid towards Africa, but that heís not merely saying that we should give free handouts and then abandon these countries to their own devices. What I hear him saying (and what I tend to agree with) is that while we should definitely be trying to help these countries move towards economic freedom and accountability, we cannot expect it to happen overnight and we cannot abandon them to the luck of the open market without taking into account the huge amounts of debt they carry, the ravaging effects of HIV/AIDS, the instability of many of their economic structures, and the inequity of trade tariffs. We owe it to ourselves to help and if that help takes the form of both aid and trade, then so be it. Personally, I wonít be upset if a cent of every dollar I pay in taxes goes to help people in the Third World. Iíve lived there, and I know that they can probably use it a helluva a lot more than I can.

But probably the thing that bothers me most about the articles is that they seem no more than a conservative knee-jerk reaction and one that overgeneralizes the issues and oversimplifies the solution. Not to mention the highly arrogant tone that screams condescension. I donít know when calling African countries ďpatheticĒ came into vogue, but I find that word choices like that in an article do tend to shred my opinion of the writerís credibility.

So in conclusion, I donít think that the above article is objective at all. It does validate one point of view, one that you seem to share, and of course you are welcome to it. But please donít try to convince me that itís an unbiased and fair assessment of the situation, because as far as I can tell, it doesnít even scratch the surface.

Hopefully that helped clarify my position and where Iím coming from. Sorry if I was vague before, and I do look forward to debating this issue civilly in the future.
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Old 06-06-2002, 05:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
But probably the thing that bothers me most about the articles is that they seem no more than a conservative knee-jerk reaction and one that overgeneralizes the issues and oversimplifies the solution. Not to mention the highly arrogant tone that screams condescension. I donít know when calling African countries ďpatheticĒ came into vogue, but I find that word choices like that in an article do tend to shred my opinion of the writerís credibility.
and the crowd roars

I have also studied enough economy and picked up enough of Bono's (+ Co) ideas to come to the same conclusions as Sula did

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Old 06-06-2002, 05:13 PM   #15
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Sula's a "stereotypical liberal" now??? LOL...I think I've heard everything now. I can tell you, from speaking to her as long as I have, she is anything but "stereotypical." She certainly researches her opinions ahead of time.

I'm also quite dismayed over your comment:

"However, the facts cannot be ignored simply because you disagree with something. You come across as the stereotypical liberal who gets annoyed and ignores the facts for the sake of a political point of view."

Conservatives, especially Rush Limbaugh, are very much guilty of this. You should really check Limbaugh's own factual record, as they often "ignore the facts for the sake of a political point of view" most certainly. If you wish for me to dig up his backlog, just say the word...

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