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Old 05-14-2004, 07:30 PM   #46
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
This ridiculous idea that dressing in a particular way makes a woman more likely to be the victim of violence really pisses me off.
It is not a ridiculous idea. Young teens dressing to draw attention to themselves also draw unwanted attention. This does not make them responsible for criminal acts, but common sense tells us that certain behaviors increase our risk of being a victim of criminal acts.
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Old 05-14-2004, 08:35 PM   #47
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I agree with nbc. In no situation is she asking for it or does it make it okay, but putting yourself in certain situations does make you a more likely target. Walking down a dark alley at night makes you a more likely target than if you are in a well lit area
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Old 05-14-2004, 08:39 PM   #48
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We are sexually maturing earlier (due to improving health conditions over the decades) and marrying later, as a society. I think you can read between the lines on that.

But, really, I'm not quite sure how I'd respond to this quandry. The stoic in me sort of wishes that sex didn't have to be brought up at all in school; we have a hard enough time with academic subjects being taught correctly in schools. But then I also know that that is unrealistic. I often wonder if it is possible to teach sex education *objectively,* as in teaching what happens, what the risk is, and then teach, without being melodramatic (because kids reject melodrama; hence why anti-drug TV ads fail), why one should wait.

But this is where I start putting blame on the whole of society. 30 years ago, the average household could subsist on one income. Today, a dual-income household is not a luxury, but, statistically, a *necessity.* So much for the myth of "low inflation," right? Perhaps the GOP can skew the numbers in their favor, but reality speaks for itself.

It is a matter of personal responsibility and socioeconomic deficiency, but I really don't see any chance of this being corrected effectively, because this subject is mostly politicized. After all, the current scapegoat is homosexuals...

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Old 05-14-2004, 11:18 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


The way I see it is that people should be free to dress in any way they wish without fear of being attacked because of that. If a woman is raped it is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT the fault of the rapist, no matter what the situation, no matter if she was walking down a dark street at 3am, no matter if she was wearing a sexy dress, no matter if she was drunk, no matter what.
I agree. I wasn't really trying to make a point about rape or how GROWN ADULT women dress. All I was saying is that it's NOT ok to dress little girls like exotic dancers b/c a pedo is going to go after them regardless of how they're dressed (which, btw, I don't really think is true....most pedos have something that triggers them, not the idea of a plain little girl in general).
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Old 05-15-2004, 02:02 AM   #50
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That kind of behavior has everything to do with power ^^^^.

Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
I think there's a fine line between saying that someone's dress or behaviour could contribute to them being a victim of rape or sexual abuse, and saying that if women choose to dress in 'sexy' clothes then they're "leading guys on" or "asking for it." (I realise you weren't suggesting this of course.)

The way I see it is that people should be free to dress in any way they wish without fear of being attacked because of that. If a woman is raped it is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT the fault of the rapist, no matter what the situation, no matter if she was walking down a dark street at 3am, no matter if she was wearing a sexy dress, no matter if she was drunk, no matter what.

Imagine if courts and in fact wider society treated people who had been mugged the same way they treat women who have been raped.

"Well, Mr. Bloggs, you were wearing a very expensive suit, you were advertising the fact that you're rich."

"You were spending a lot of money in that bar, Mr, Bloggs, it was clear that you were carrying a lot of money."

"You've given money to charity in the past, wouldn't it be reasonable for the muggers to assume you didn't mind having your money taken from you by force since you've given it away freely in the past?"

This ridiculous idea that dressing in a particular way makes a woman more likely to be the victim of violence really pisses me off.
Thank you. This is what I was trying to say.

Quote:
Originally posted by ILuvLarryMullen
I agree with nbc. In no situation is she asking for it or does it make it okay, but putting yourself in certain situations does make you a more likely target. Walking down a dark alley at night makes you a more likely target than if you are in a well lit area
Yes, it may not be the smartest thing to put yourself in a situation where you could be hurt or killed, but, as you said, it still doesn't make what they do okay.

Angela
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Old 05-15-2004, 04:43 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
It is not a ridiculous idea. Young teens dressing to draw attention to themselves also draw unwanted attention.
So you honestly think if a young woman who is dressed in revealing clothes is raped, then she could have done something to avoid being raped by dressing differently?
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Old 05-15-2004, 02:25 PM   #52
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There are many choices we make to reduce the likelihood that we are victims of crime. How we dress, where we walk, how we present ourselves all play into whether or not we are targeted for a crime.

No one deserves to be a crime victim, but our actions do play a role.
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Old 05-15-2004, 02:37 PM   #53
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In reality, you are only going to be a victim if the person shuffling past you in a dark street or the one who follows you home from the pub or shops is intent on committing that crime.
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Old 05-15-2004, 05:36 PM   #54
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A good chance to reduce the risk for little girls is:
Having a relationship to your kids that they would call you anytime anywhere when they are unsure how to get home before they walk in dangerous areas, hitchhike etc
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Old 05-15-2004, 07:42 PM   #55
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I hope nobody has taken my comments about my niece to mean that I was suggesting women are to blame in a rape or any other crime because they were dressed in a certain way. Absolutely not.

I was very specifically commenting on young girls who dress seductively putting themselves in a position of dealing with male attention they aren't ready for. I wasn't necessarily talking about rape or molestation...I was talking more about leering and cat calls from adult men who probably don't realize how young the girl really is.

It is true that somone who rapes and molests doesn't choose a victim based on her clothing...it can happen to anyone. My concern has to do with 12 and 13 year old girls walking around dressed like they are 16 and 17 years old and being approached by adult men. Without realizing it, these girls are putting themselves into situations that they aren't ready for.

It just makes me sad that some girls can't stay girls for a little while longer. Mothers think its cute to dress their daughters in belly shirts and short skirts and others don't have the backbone to say no. There is plenty of time for thongs and padded bras and sexy clothes, preferably when a woman is old enough to deal with the attention that comes with it.

I think its equally as sad that our kids (boys and girls) are now forming their their opinions of sex and how to treat each other by looking at porn on the internet instead of getting the information from their parents.

So back on topic...at this point, I don't think oral sex lessons are really needed. They are already doing it. Until parents step up and take back the responsibility for their own kids, the boundries will continue to slip away and things like oral sex on the school bus will become the norm
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Old 05-17-2004, 08:39 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
There are many choices we make to reduce the likelihood that we are victims of crime. How we dress, where we walk, how we present ourselves all play into whether or not we are targeted for a crime.

No one deserves to be a crime victim, but our actions do play a role.
I'm with Fizz on this one.

I've been harrassed by men when I was wearing sweat pants and a sweatshirt. But was it my fault that some guys felt it appropriate to yell out the window at me? I mean, should I have not been wearing that big baggy sweatshirt that was obviously meant to tempt them into a fury? If a person is harrassed- or worse, raped- it's the fault of the harrasser. To blame the woman in any way is making it that much more okay for the criminal. Even if she was with her boyfriend but said "no" when things were getting heated, and he ignored her, HE is in the wrong for not listening to her.

On the other hand, how can someone be expected to resist a beautiful woman walking down the street in a clubbing outfit? Obviously she is "asking for it" on some level...



This isn't to say a woman can't do certain things to protect herself (i.e. not walking alone in dark alleys) but when we start blaming her for "inviting" it, we really start to lose grip on the term "equal rights" and might as well have women wrapped up and hidden in houses for only their husbands to see. Not that that would even guarantee their safety.
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Old 05-17-2004, 09:08 AM   #57
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I agree w/ you olive, I've had creeps yell things out at me while I was just trying to walk on a street, dressed in similar clothing. You're afraid to say or do anything back..and it isn't a good idea to do so. It is scary and intimidating though, and what gives them the right to feel free to do things like that?

I don't think nbcrusader is the type of person who would defend that kind of behavior though
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Old 05-17-2004, 09:09 AM   #58
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oliveu2cm:

I don't think NBC was talking about guilt, just about things that reduce the risk.

It's like looking if all the other cars stoped even if you have a green signal on your road.

Noone should blame a women, no matter how she dressed it's just the criminal man in this case who is to blame but hinting a women how she could behave to reduce risks is legitime (also i don't know if all of the things mentioned really can make a difference)
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Old 05-17-2004, 12:17 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


I don't think nbcrusader is the type of person who would defend that kind of behavior though
No, I know he wouldn't. It's a touchy subject for me, when women get 'blamed' or told by dressing a certain way they tempt men into behaving wrong.

thx,
Olive
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Old 05-17-2004, 01:23 PM   #60
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This is not about blame. No one deserves to be a victim.

We can learn how the criminal mind thinks and the steps we can take to reduce our likelihood of being a target. This is not the ideal. It is how we cope with an imperfect world.
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