Oral sex lessons to cut rates of teenage pregnancy

[Sherry Darling]

Teen pregnancy is an absolute failure of adults. When we suggest that "kids will have sex anyways" we are collectively failing to set expectations for a child's behavior. We are failing the next generation.

It's interesting, NBC, I saw this as a teacher. I had girls tell me frankly that they were virgins and that no, NOT everyone is doing it. (Why they thought their Enlish teacher needed to know this, I'm not sure, but I guess I ask for it when I open up conversations about life). Anyway, I don't have any at my fingertips but I've seen surveys that show that most girls at least (can't speak for the boys ), if they do have sex, do so because they think they have to to keep their guy.

SD

 

[nbcrusader]

It's interesting, NBC, I saw this as a teacher.

I've also seen this in the teaching realm. Parents frequently undercut a teacher's ability to set and maintain expectations. Often, the parent is too disengaged to support or enforce any such expectations.

 

[Liesje]

Often, the parent is too disengaged to support or enforce any such expectations.

We have a HUGE problem with this where I live. It's the main reason why our public education around here is a joke. Parents have no incentive to be involved with what their children are learning. They just drop them off at school at 6:30 for free breakfast and pick them up in the afternoon. If the parents don't care, the teachers have no reason to enforce certain standards. In the end it's the kids that suffer.

 

[Dreadsox]

I have been teaching eight years....and it has not been getting any easier.

Too many parents, fathers in particular, leaving their children in the dust.

Classroom of 20 Kids....11 do not have a relationship with their father. I wish I were making it up.

 

[ILuvLarryMullen]

I can't believe the huge rise in sexual activity among children that has happened in less than a generation's time. It makes me afraid of what things are going to be like when I have kids some day. I'm only 21 and when I was in middle school very few kids were having sex and now it seems pretty common(maybe I was just naive because I hung out with good kids, but I don't think so. Does anyone else in their late teens/early 20s notice the change?). There was of course a lot of high schoolers having sex, but I find that a little less disturbing, though not necessarily great either. I'm not really sure what is wrong with society that is causing this to happen. On a lot of levels I think it has to do with lack of boundaries from parents. I see pre-teen girls dressing like they are 20, something my parents never would have let me do. It seems like a lot of mothers even encourage it. Working retail I have seen mothers buying thong underwear for their pre-teen daughters, etc and I think it's sick. The way we are sexualizing children is horrible, we are stealing their childhood from them. I worked in the children's department of jc penney and they had padded training bras! Little girls do not need to be worrying about how big their boobs are . I'm getting off topic, so i'll just leave it at that.

 

[Liesje]

On a lot of levels I think it has to do with lack of boundaries from parents. I see pre-teen girls dressing like they are 20, something my parents never would have let me do. It seems like a lot of mothers even encourage it. Working retail I have seen mothers buying thong underwear for their pre-teen daughters, etc and I think it's sick. The way we are sexualizing children is horrible, we are stealing their childhood from them. I worked in the children's department of jc penney and they had padded training bras!

Sooooooo true!!! My mom will often point and comment to me when she sees little girls (12 or younger) wearing skimpy sequined halter tops, string bikinis, etc. When I was a kid, our clothes were practical and durable, not slutty. Some of the stuff I've seen kids in I'd be embarrassed to wear at my age (19)!

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Dressing like that doesn't automatically mean you'll become sexually active, though. I mean, I wouldn't wear that stuff, but if somebody wanted to...*Shrugs*.

Angela

 

[ILuvLarryMullen]

No it doesn't necessarily mean that you are going to do something. I just don't think it's right to try to make 12 year olds look sexy. They are children and shouldn't be sexualized like that imo.

 

[BAW]

No it doesn't necessarily mean that you are going to do something. I just don't think it's right to try to make 12 year olds look sexy. They are children and shouldn't be sexualized like that imo.

I totally agree. Even if an 11 or 12 year old girl isn't having sex or considering it, looking or acting overtly sexual can put her in situations she doesn't need to be in and probably can't handle at that age.

I recently took my 13 year old niece to Disneyland and she is a gorgeous, yet very innocent little girl. She was dressed in a way that I considered innapropriate for her age but no different than the way most of her friends dress. I was really unnerved at the way 20, 30 and even 40 year old men were looking at her. It was scary. To them, she was a cute blond with long legs in a short skirt but in reality she's a dorky 7th grader who hasn't even kissed a boy yet.

She was oblivious to it all but I'm pretty sure if she had been wearing baggy jeans and sweatshirt, they would have looked right past her.

 

[forbonou2]

I agree with Mrs. S! They don't need it taught to them, and they don't need it crammed down their throats, either! They ARE kids, after all!

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I recently took my 13 year old niece to Disneyland and she is a gorgeous, yet very innocent little girl. She was dressed in a way that I considered innapropriate for her age but no different than the way most of her friends dress. I was really unnerved at the way 20, 30 and even 40 year old men were looking at her. It was scary. To them, she was a cute blond with long legs in a short skirt but in reality she's a dorky 7th grader who hasn't even kissed a boy yet.

I agree, guys that age shouldn't be looking at girls that young in such a way, but the clothing has nothing to do with it, namely because...

Originally posted by Bono's American Wife
She was oblivious to it all but I'm pretty sure if she had been wearing baggy jeans and sweatshirt, they would have looked right past her.

...if some adult wants to take advantage of a young girl (or boy), they will do so regardless of what clothing the child wears. A young girl could wear a snug sweater, that, even though it's tight, is still covering up everything, and some idiot can still get some sick thoughts about her.

Angela

 

[Pearl]

originally posted by ILuvLarryMullen
I can't believe the huge rise in sexual activity among children that has happened in less than a generation's time. It makes me afraid of what things are going to be like when I have kids some day. I'm only 21 and when I was in middle school very few kids were having sex and now it seems pretty common(maybe I was just naive because I hung out with good kids, but I don't think so. Does anyone else in their late teens/early 20s notice the change?).

I have, and I am also afraid when I have kids. I really find it hard to believe that junior high kids, and younger, are having oral sex because that never happened when I was in junior high. Back then, all we did was hold hands while walking down the halls, and on a dare, kiss each other for one minute. That was it, something completely innocent. There was no sex going on, and oral sex wasn't even thought of. Oral sex is kind of like the new fourth base or something, since lately it comes before intercourse.

originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
...if some adult wants to take advantage of a young girl (or boy), they will do so regardless of what clothing the child wears. A young girl could wear a snug sweater, that, even though it's tight, is still covering up everything, and some idiot can still get some sick thoughts about her.

True, but the fact that skin is showing would make men more likely to look at her.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

True, but the fact that skin is showing would make men more likely to look at her.

Not necessarily. Again, pedophiles do not care what kids are wearing, they just see a kid they can take advantage of.

Angela

 

[Liesje]

Again, pedophiles do not care what kids are wearing, they just see a kid they can take advantage of.

Of course, there will always be SOMEONE sick enough to harm an innocent child regardless of how she's dressed, but that doesn't mean we give up. I mean, there will always be rape, but we don't tell women to go to parties, get trashed and let a guy drug her up b/c hell, she might get raped anyway, so why not? Bottom line: some parents these days just haven't got a clue.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Of course, there will always be SOMEONE sick enough to harm an innocent child regardless of how she's dressed, but that doesn't mean we give up. I mean, there will always be rape, but we don't tell women to go to parties, get trashed and let a guy drug her up b/c hell, she might get raped anyway, so why not? Bottom line: some parents these days just haven't got a clue.

I think there's a fine line between saying that someone's dress or behaviour could contribute to them being a victim of rape or sexual abuse, and saying that if women choose to dress in 'sexy' clothes then they're "leading guys on" or "asking for it." (I realise you weren't suggesting this of course.)

The way I see it is that people should be free to dress in any way they wish without fear of being attacked because of that. If a woman is raped it is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT the fault of the rapist, no matter what the situation, no matter if she was walking down a dark street at 3am, no matter if she was wearing a sexy dress, no matter if she was drunk, no matter what.

Imagine if courts and in fact wider society treated people who had been mugged the same way they treat women who have been raped.

"Well, Mr. Bloggs, you were wearing a very expensive suit, you were advertising the fact that you're rich."

"You were spending a lot of money in that bar, Mr, Bloggs, it was clear that you were carrying a lot of money."

"You've given money to charity in the past, wouldn't it be reasonable for the muggers to assume you didn't mind having your money taken from you by force since you've given it away freely in the past?"

This ridiculous idea that dressing in a particular way makes a woman more likely to be the victim of violence really pisses me off.

 

[nbcrusader]

This ridiculous idea that dressing in a particular way makes a woman more likely to be the victim of violence really pisses me off.

It is not a ridiculous idea. Young teens dressing to draw attention to themselves also draw unwanted attention. This does not make them responsible for criminal acts, but common sense tells us that certain behaviors increase our risk of being a victim of criminal acts.

 

[ILuvLarryMullen]

I agree with nbc. In no situation is she asking for it or does it make it okay, but putting yourself in certain situations does make you a more likely target. Walking down a dark alley at night makes you a more likely target than if you are in a well lit area

 

[melon]

We are sexually maturing earlier (due to improving health conditions over the decades) and marrying later, as a society. I think you can read between the lines on that.

But, really, I'm not quite sure how I'd respond to this quandry. The stoic in me sort of wishes that sex didn't have to be brought up at all in school; we have a hard enough time with academic subjects being taught correctly in schools. But then I also know that that is unrealistic. I often wonder if it is possible to teach sex education *objectively,* as in teaching what happens, what the risk is, and then teach, without being melodramatic (because kids reject melodrama; hence why anti-drug TV ads fail), why one should wait.

But this is where I start putting blame on the whole of society. 30 years ago, the average household could subsist on one income. Today, a dual-income household is not a luxury, but, statistically, a *necessity.* So much for the myth of "low inflation," right? Perhaps the GOP can skew the numbers in their favor, but reality speaks for itself.

It is a matter of personal responsibility and socioeconomic deficiency, but I really don't see any chance of this being corrected effectively, because this subject is mostly politicized. After all, the current scapegoat is homosexuals...

Melon

 

[Liesje]

The way I see it is that people should be free to dress in any way they wish without fear of being attacked because of that. If a woman is raped it is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT the fault of the rapist, no matter what the situation, no matter if she was walking down a dark street at 3am, no matter if she was wearing a sexy dress, no matter if she was drunk, no matter what.

I agree. I wasn't really trying to make a point about rape or how GROWN ADULT women dress. All I was saying is that it's NOT ok to dress little girls like exotic dancers b/c a pedo is going to go after them regardless of how they're dressed (which, btw, I don't really think is true....most pedos have something that triggers them, not the idea of a plain little girl in general).

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

That kind of behavior has everything to do with power ^^^^.

I think there's a fine line between saying that someone's dress or behaviour could contribute to them being a victim of rape or sexual abuse, and saying that if women choose to dress in 'sexy' clothes then they're "leading guys on" or "asking for it." (I realise you weren't suggesting this of course.)

The way I see it is that people should be free to dress in any way they wish without fear of being attacked because of that. If a woman is raped it is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT the fault of the rapist, no matter what the situation, no matter if she was walking down a dark street at 3am, no matter if she was wearing a sexy dress, no matter if she was drunk, no matter what.

Imagine if courts and in fact wider society treated people who had been mugged the same way they treat women who have been raped.

"Well, Mr. Bloggs, you were wearing a very expensive suit, you were advertising the fact that you're rich."

"You were spending a lot of money in that bar, Mr, Bloggs, it was clear that you were carrying a lot of money."

"You've given money to charity in the past, wouldn't it be reasonable for the muggers to assume you didn't mind having your money taken from you by force since you've given it away freely in the past?"

This ridiculous idea that dressing in a particular way makes a woman more likely to be the victim of violence really pisses me off.

Thank you. This is what I was trying to say.

Originally posted by ILuvLarryMullen
I agree with nbc. In no situation is she asking for it or does it make it okay, but putting yourself in certain situations does make you a more likely target. Walking down a dark alley at night makes you a more likely target than if you are in a well lit area

Yes, it may not be the smartest thing to put yourself in a situation where you could be hurt or killed, but, as you said, it still doesn't make what they do okay.

Angela

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

It is not a ridiculous idea. Young teens dressing to draw attention to themselves also draw unwanted attention.

So you honestly think if a young woman who is dressed in revealing clothes is raped, then she could have done something to avoid being raped by dressing differently?

 

[nbcrusader]

There are many choices we make to reduce the likelihood that we are victims of crime. How we dress, where we walk, how we present ourselves all play into whether or not we are targeted for a crime.

No one deserves to be a crime victim, but our actions do play a role.

 

[Angela Harlem]

In reality, you are only going to be a victim if the person shuffling past you in a dark street or the one who follows you home from the pub or shops is intent on committing that crime.

 

[Klaus]

A good chance to reduce the risk for little girls is:
Having a relationship to your kids that they would call you anytime anywhere when they are unsure how to get home before they walk in dangerous areas, hitchhike etc

 

[BAW]

I hope nobody has taken my comments about my niece to mean that I was suggesting women are to blame in a rape or any other crime because they were dressed in a certain way. Absolutely not.

I was very specifically commenting on young girls who dress seductively putting themselves in a position of dealing with male attention they aren't ready for. I wasn't necessarily talking about rape or molestation...I was talking more about leering and cat calls from adult men who probably don't realize how young the girl really is.

It is true that somone who rapes and molests doesn't choose a victim based on her clothing...it can happen to anyone. My concern has to do with 12 and 13 year old girls walking around dressed like they are 16 and 17 years old and being approached by adult men. Without realizing it, these girls are putting themselves into situations that they aren't ready for.

It just makes me sad that some girls can't stay girls for a little while longer. Mothers think its cute to dress their daughters in belly shirts and short skirts and others don't have the backbone to say no. There is plenty of time for thongs and padded bras and sexy clothes, preferably when a woman is old enough to deal with the attention that comes with it.

I think its equally as sad that our kids (boys and girls) are now forming their their opinions of sex and how to treat each other by looking at porn on the internet instead of getting the information from their parents.

So back on topic...at this point, I don't think oral sex lessons are really needed. They are already doing it. Until parents step up and take back the responsibility for their own kids, the boundries will continue to slip away and things like oral sex on the school bus will become the norm

 

[oliveu2cm]

There are many choices we make to reduce the likelihood that we are victims of crime. How we dress, where we walk, how we present ourselves all play into whether or not we are targeted for a crime.

No one deserves to be a crime victim, but our actions do play a role.

I'm with Fizz on this one.

I've been harrassed by men when I was wearing sweat pants and a sweatshirt. But was it my fault that some guys felt it appropriate to yell out the window at me? I mean, should I have not been wearing that big baggy sweatshirt that was obviously meant to tempt them into a fury? If a person is harrassed- or worse, raped- it's the fault of the harrasser. To blame the woman in any way is making it that much more okay for the criminal. Even if she was with her boyfriend but said "no" when things were getting heated, and he ignored her, HE is in the wrong for not listening to her.

On the other hand, how can someone be expected to resist a beautiful woman walking down the street in a clubbing outfit? Obviously she is "asking for it" on some level...



This isn't to say a woman can't do certain things to protect herself (i.e. not walking alone in dark alleys) but when we start blaming her for "inviting" it, we really start to lose grip on the term "equal rights" and might as well have women wrapped up and hidden in houses for only their husbands to see. Not that that would even guarantee their safety.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I agree w/ you olive, I've had creeps yell things out at me while I was just trying to walk on a street, dressed in similar clothing. You're afraid to say or do anything back..and it isn't a good idea to do so. It is scary and intimidating though, and what gives them the right to feel free to do things like that?

I don't think nbcrusader is the type of person who would defend that kind of behavior though

 

[Klaus]

oliveu2cm:

I don't think NBC was talking about guilt, just about things that reduce the risk.

It's like looking if all the other cars stoped even if you have a green signal on your road.

Noone should blame a women, no matter how she dressed it's just the criminal man in this case who is to blame but hinting a women how she could behave to reduce risks is legitime (also i don't know if all of the things mentioned really can make a difference)

 

[oliveu2cm]

I don't think nbcrusader is the type of person who would defend that kind of behavior though

No, I know he wouldn't. It's a touchy subject for me, when women get 'blamed' or told by dressing a certain way they tempt men into behaving wrong.

thx,
Olive

 

[nbcrusader]

This is not about blame. No one deserves to be a victim.

We can learn how the criminal mind thinks and the steps we can take to reduce our likelihood of being a target. This is not the ideal. It is how we cope with an imperfect world.