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Old 06-21-2005, 05:22 AM   #91
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First of all, the article is two years old.

Second of all, even the two-year-old stats say that only seven of 535 lawmakers had children who either were already fighting or could be called up.

And what do you make of these quotes?

Quote:
The number of federal lawmakers with children in the military has steadily declined since the Vietnam era, and some say that's too bad.

If more members of Congress had children in the military, they'd be less likely to vote for war, said Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y. He said that "the sons and daughters of the most privileged Americans are underrepresented or absent" from the military.

In January, Rangel introduced a bill to reinstate the draft, which was halted 30 years ago. His bill would require military or civilian service for all citizens ages 18 to 26.


Quote:
Charles Moskos, a sociology professor at Northwestern University who specializes in the military, said that a decline in military service for lawmakers' kids has occurred at a similar rate. As an illustration, he noted that all the Kennedy brothers served while none of their children did.

Moskos said that around the late 1960s the upper classes got more deferments from the draft, and after the draft ended in 1973, that elite group generally continued to forgo military service.

"If we had a war in which there was really heavy casualties, and the elite children weren't serving, we'd be very disillusioned with that war," he said.


The article itself is pretty brief and sketchy anyway, but there's no evidence that it's factually incorrect. However, I don't think it qualifies as overwhelmingly good evidence that the folks behind this war politically are actually willing to put their money where their mouths are.
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Old 06-21-2005, 05:30 AM   #92
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I think that events like WW2 for Joe Kennedy's kids, Vietnam during the 1960's and the end of the Cold War the emergence of the US millitary from that and the changes in force structure after that have a lot to do with the decline.
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:12 AM   #93
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i'd like to know the unemployment numbers for the counties that draw the most military volunteers.

if recruitment stations and signs are anything to go by, it's significantly higher in depressed areas (like North Adams, MA) than it is in wealthy Republican strongholds (like Rancho Santa Fe, CA).

could it be that the destruction of traditional blue collar work (such as manufacuring jobs) via outsourcing is a great way to create a permanent class of people who's only option beyond service industry jobs and a near poverty line existence is the military?

on one hand, there's no question that the military can be wonderful for many people, both rich and poor. there's no question that the military has helped, and educated, hundreds of thousands of economically downtrodden people (not to mention a few fucked-up rich kids), especially minorities stuck in ghettos and barrios. i think the US military, on balance, and until recently, has been a good thing for the US and for the world.

however, now that we have a new ruling elite in power -- and let's be honest, there's a small oligarchy of rich people who get a president elected; it's just that the rich people who got Bush elected have different priorities than the rich people who would have been in power had Kerry been elected -- it does strike me that they have a sort of, "what's the use of having a military if you don't use it" attitude.

as in, "they're cannon fodder essential for my business interests."
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:15 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well sometimes they are subtle but they are first.
No, that's not true.

For instance, take Rono here. The other day, he personally insulted me big time. It was an insult that merited a lecture from the Mods, but none came. That's why I brought up his America hating today.

Someone else once told me that I am "the type of Christian that makes [her] want to vomit". Now days, I frequently tell her that her statements make me want to vomit. You notice, however, that I didn't return in kind - I didn't say she makes me want to vomit, the way she did to me. I said her statements make me want to vomit.

In the past 3 months, 3 people have made personal insults against me. And of these 3, 2 of them have gone on record as saying they believe in tolerance. And yet, they insulted me for no other reason than the fact that I had different views than them. That cheeses me off, because political/theological discussion should not sink to personal insults. I argue with melon and Irvine all the time, but they don't insult me on a personal level.

I never personally insult people. I've come very close a few times and had to erase what I typed, but instead what comes out is a "that was very rude of you" remark.

However, the fact that none of them apologized really unsettles me, and I do often seek passive agressive retribution by following them around and bugging them in certain ways; for instance, always using "vomit" toward the certain person. Maybe I shouldn't do that, and maybe I'll stop.

But maybe the people who preach tolerance should stop with the personal insults.
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:17 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
Bollocks, you talk shit., I don`t blaim america in general, only bible fuckers like you.
Rono, if I were a Premium member and could use "Search", I'd prove you wrong right here. Frequently, you pop your head up in conversations and spout off your anti-America statements.
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:22 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
could it be that the destruction of traditional blue collar work (such as manufacuring jobs) via outsourcing is a great way to create a permanent class of people who's only option beyond service industry jobs and a near poverty line existence is the military?
no war between nations.
no peace between classes.
no war but class war.
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:26 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


No, that's not true.

For instance, take Rono here. The other day, he personally insulted me big time. It was an insult that merited a lecture from the Mods, but none came. That's why I brought up his America hating today.

Has it totally escaped everyone's notice that I'm not a mod anymore?

The "report posts" button is very handy.
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:29 AM   #98
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pax, I wasn't talking about you. I always found you to be very good at your job.

I wasn't really tallking about anyone in particular.
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Old 06-21-2005, 08:53 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


No, that's not true.

For instance, take Rono here. The other day, he personally insulted me big time. It was an insult that merited a lecture from the Mods, but none came. That's why I brought up his America hating today.

Someone else once told me that I am "the type of Christian that makes [her] want to vomit". Now days, I frequently tell her that her statements make me want to vomit. You notice, however, that I didn't return in kind - I didn't say she makes me want to vomit, the way she did to me. I said her statements make me want to vomit.

In the past 3 months, 3 people have made personal insults against me. And of these 3, 2 of them have gone on record as saying they believe in tolerance. And yet, they insulted me for no other reason than the fact that I had different views than them. That cheeses me off, because political/theological discussion should not sink to personal insults. I argue with melon and Irvine all the time, but they don't insult me on a personal level.

I never personally insult people. I've come very close a few times and had to erase what I typed, but instead what comes out is a "that was very rude of you" remark.

However, the fact that none of them apologized really unsettles me, and I do often seek passive agressive retribution by following them around and bugging them in certain ways; for instance, always using "vomit" toward the certain person. Maybe I shouldn't do that, and maybe I'll stop.

But maybe the people who preach tolerance should stop with the personal insults.
I understand where you're coming from but won't talk about it any further because I'm really glad you're back here in FYM.
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Old 06-21-2005, 09:50 AM   #100
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You are? Thanks. I often regret letting myself post that first one, because it's rather addicting to me.
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Old 06-21-2005, 02:29 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by pax


Has it totally escaped everyone's notice that I'm not a mod anymore?

The "report posts" button is very handy.
pax,

I do not check the mod list...and I think you should reconsider. I think everyone in here believes you are fair in your moderating.
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Old 06-21-2005, 05:44 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


pax,

I do not check the mod list...and I think you should reconsider. I think everyone in here believes you are fair in your moderating.
Thanks for saying so. I feel I had a good three years.

I'm pleased to be a private citizen again.
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Old 06-21-2005, 05:46 PM   #103
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congradulations


you deserve it.
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