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Old 06-19-2005, 05:02 PM   #61
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Originally posted by anitram


80s, with all due respect, why did you listen to them?
I didn't make my decision about whether I thought she was a vegetable or not until I saw the videos. Once I saw the videos and read some other things, I agreed with them because they were supporting what I had seemed to see with my own 2 eyes.
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Old 06-19-2005, 05:02 PM   #62
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Did Tom Delay spend time in the room with her, or was he too busy trying to enforce Biblical law in America?
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Old 06-19-2005, 07:00 PM   #63
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The real truth about the "Religious Right"????
www.antipasministries.com
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Old 06-19-2005, 07:28 PM   #64
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I think that the "religious right" looks completely sane and level headed when compared to that apocalypse cult.
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Old 06-19-2005, 07:33 PM   #65
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I think that the "religious right" looks completely sane and level headed when compared to that apocalypse cult.
And that's saying a lot.
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Old 06-19-2005, 08:42 PM   #66
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Originally posted by financeguy
Did Tom Delay spend time in the room with her, or was he too busy trying to enforce Biblical law in America?
Tom Delay didn't, but art least 2 neuro-specialists who said there was hope did.
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:02 PM   #67
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And now we know that those 2 were wrong that the rest were right.
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Old 06-20-2005, 06:39 AM   #68
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

And as far as "choosing whom to listen to", your side did the same thing. You chose to listen to the doctors that were on your side even though there were other specialists who disaagreed.

yes, but we were right and you were wrong.

the autopsy only validated what everyone already knew, except those in this delusional world you've all been inhabiting in regards to this case. you listened only to people who said what you wanted to hear. it's as simple as that. you willfully allowed youself to be deceived, and now you're seeing the consequences. and for you to give even an ounce of credibility to that video -- the video that is utterly bogus, and had been highly edited by the Schindler's to be used as a propaganda tool -- really renders any argument moot, and makes you look just as silly as Frist and Delay since we know that her vision centers were dead, she wasn't following a balloon, and you were just seeing what you wanted to see -- like people who see the image of the Virgin Mary in a water stain or grilled cheese sandwich.
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Old 06-20-2005, 06:59 AM   #69
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Again, Irvine, it doesn't matter who was right and who was wrong in what I am arguing, as I was simply saying that Danforth misrepresented my motivation.

I don't know why that point was so hard to figure out.
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Old 06-20-2005, 07:26 AM   #70
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Again, Irvine, it doesn't matter who was right and who was wrong in what I am arguing, as I was simply saying that Danforth misrepresented my motivation.

I don't know why that point was so hard to figure out.


because your motivation was based on manipulation, lies, distortion, and wishful thinking.

if you had paid attention to the facts of the case, instead of self-selecting your information, "you people" might have arrived at a much more logical conclusion.

in the end, this has been a great victory for those who believe that science, medicine, and the courts should remain secular.
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Old 06-20-2005, 07:49 AM   #71
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Originally posted by Irvine511
[B]
because your motivation was based on manipulation, lies, distortion, and wishful thinking.]
I said that I didn't understand why it was so hard to understand that I was pointing out that Danforth misrepresented my view, and this is how you answer? It makes no sense.

Look here, and you'll see what I mean:

Me: I don't understand why the fact that I was pointing out Danforth's misrepresentation is so hard to understand.

You: Because your motivation was based on manipulation, lies, distortion, and wishful thinking.

What the heck kind of answer is that? It doesn't have anything to do with what Danforth said. Danforth said that the motivation was power.

Did the fact that you think my motivation was "based on manipulation, lies, distortion, and wishful thinking" really somehow make it hard for you to understand what my point was? I find that incredible.

All one had to do was read Danforth's original statement about the motivation, and then read my statement that his accusation about the motivation was wrong. to understand what my point was. It certainly should have not been hard to understand, as it was written right there in navy blue and cyan. I didn't mince words; I didn't hide my words in secret code. But still, I had no less than 3 people talk to me about what was revealed when the autopsy was done. It was, quite frankly, like talking to walls.

However, I am certainly glad to see that you are so gleeful that your side of the argument was vindicated.

As for Michael Schiavo, he is finally free of his burdensome wife and can now impregnate as many women as he wants to without fear of the press being all over him.
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Old 06-20-2005, 08:42 AM   #72
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80's, you originaly wrote:

"And what was it really about for most of us? It was about life; We saw signs that we interpreted as Schiavo being more lucid than what some said; we saw our plight as protecting Terri against a husband who, although having left Terri years ago and shacking up with a woman and having 3 kids by her, expected us to have faith in his word that Terri had said she's want to have feeding stopped, even though he couldn't provide a scrap of proof towards that end. So, to say that those of us who wanted the feeding tube to stay in wanted thus for reasons of power, is a gross misinterpretation, and he should be ashamed of himself."





you said you were on the side of Life, yet what you think you saw as Life, wasn't life, as most of us knew, as pretty much everyone who wasn't choosing to be deceived knew. you might disagree with Danforth about his use of the word "power," but your argument, the one you feel he is mischaracterizing, is utterly and totally false and predicated upon, as i said, lies, manipulation, propaganda, and so many other things that have become commonplace when the Religious Right (for lack of a better term) is faced with scientific evidence that contradicts whatever religious argument is being put forward. and if you think that the intervention of DeLay and Bush (who flew back to DC from Crawford at midnight) and Frist wasn't about power, then you're also being naive. just look at wanna-be Prez Jeb and his "investigation."

it's all about political power, and about politicians who are pandering to "you people" in order to get your vote, because they know that this particular piece of the voting constituency votes single-mindedly in stark, black-and-white terms. are you a part of the (fucking bogus) Culture of Life or are you a part of the Culture of Death? that's how they think "you people" understand the world, and that's how they in turn play their political hands.

i'm not saying if they're right or wrong, but i am saying that this is the political strategy that is being utilized. and it did give the Republicans the white house for another 4 years.

think condoms promote sexual activity? you can find a docor who will say they fail 15% of the time (when most people say that, correctly used, condoms work 99% of the time). it's not terribly hard to find a doctor who is willing to support a political agenda. it's akin to oil companies who hire scientists to produce reports that disagree with global warming.

i'm simply very worried about this. i see it as a refusal to think, to question, and to weigh evidence. instead, people start out with an assumption -- usually inherited -- and then seek to find information that supports that assumption.

and this is a perfect example of that.

and it spells doom for democracy, which relies upon the thinking, critical, alert and aware voter.
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Old 06-20-2005, 08:45 AM   #73
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
As for Michael Schiavo, he is finally free of his burdensome wife and can now impregnate as many women as he wants to without fear of the press being all over him.

this, sir, is very, very cheap.

i expect better from you.
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Old 06-20-2005, 09:25 AM   #74
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this, sir, is very, very cheap.

i expect better from you.
Why is it cheap? I didn't insult you. I made a statement about Michael Schiavo. Why is it okay for you to say that the politicians who were behind the "save Terri campaign" were doing it all for power, and that those of us who aren't in power are "choosing to be decieved" and exercising a "refusal to think" and yet when I say something against a man who cheated on his wife and had 3 kids with the woman, you say it's "cheap"? That's just hypocritical, Irvine.
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Old 06-20-2005, 10:28 AM   #75
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Why is it cheap? I didn't insult you. I made a statement about Michael Schiavo. Why is it okay for you to say that the politicians who were behind the "save Terri campaign" were doing it all for power, and that those of us who aren't in power are "choosing to be decieved" and exercising a "refusal to think" and yet when I say something against a man who cheated on his wife and had 3 kids with the woman, you say it's "cheap"? That's just hypocritical, Irvine.


it has nothing to do with hypocrisy. you really need to get a grip on what that word means, because you use it incorrectly.

Michael Schiavo isn't running for office, doesn't hold any political power, and is just one player in a very sad family drama. to compare him, someone close to the situation and directly affected by all it's twists and turns, to grandstanding politicians who are seeking to exploit this situation for political gain (again, see Jeb's new crusade), to politicians like W, Jeb, and DeLay is, i would say, another refusal to think, and a stretch to make comparisons when they cannot be logically made.

also, i know it's convenient for you to apply whatever view of marriage you have -- btw, being in a PVS isn't even close to "sickness," is akin to death -- but i think MS accepted the fact that his wife wasn't coming back, she was essentially dead, and that NO ONE would want to 1) be kept in a PVS for 15 years with no hope of recovery, and 2) to be PUT ON TELEVISION instead of being paraded around by her obviously greiving parents. MS struck me as the adult in the situation, and his refusal to grant divorce was probably an indication of the fact that he knew Terri would never want to be either kept on life support, or dressed up by her parents.

if he just wanted to rid himself of the situation, the easy way would have been divorce.

i know you've lost the argument, you've all been humiliated by the autopsy and the egg is all over the face of the shreiking sanctimonious windbags who wanted to bring Terri bread and water (so she could choke to death!?!?! oh, wait, you'd only know that she was incapable of eating on her own if you listened to doctors and knew something about medicine), but to say that Michael Schiavo was running around and impregnating Florida is such a weak little fart of an argument, so free of fact, that it's hard to take seriously.

so hard, in fact, that i'm totally done with this thread.

few things in the news have made me so angry as this whole sad, ugly spectacle has. so it's probably best, since i've said my piece, and we on the secular side have been thoroughly vindicated, to step out now.
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