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Old 11-06-2004, 12:49 PM   #1
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Onward Christian Soldiers -- The Crusades are on again

It is with mixed emotions I post this.

I watched Nightline on ABC last night they had a 24 year old burn victim on. He was from the South in the U S. His face was burned off.


How the hell are we fighting what the Iraqis can only percieve as a religious war.

The hearts and minds are being lost at a greater and greater rate.


Quote:

Marines turn to God ahead of anticipated Fallujah battle

Sat Nov 06 2004 09:37:17 ET

NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq, Nov 6 (AFP) - With US forces massing outside Fallujah, 35 marines swayed to Christian rock music and asked Jesus Christ to protect them in what could be the biggest battle since American troops invaded Iraq last year.

Men with buzzcuts and clad in their camouflage waved their hands in the air, M-16 assault rifles laying beside them, and chanted heavy metal-flavoured lyrics in praise of Christ late Friday in a yellow-brick chapel.

They counted among thousands of troops surrounding the city of Fallujah, seeking solace as they awaited Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's decision on whether or not to invade Fallujah.

"You are the sovereign. You're name is holy. You are the pure spotless lamb," a female voice cried out on the loudspeakers as the marines clapped their hands and closed their eyes, reflecting on what lay ahead for them.

The US military, with many soldiers coming from the conservative American south and midwest, has deep Christian roots.

In times that fighting looms, many soldiers draw on their evangelical or born-again heritage to help them face the battle.

"It's always comforting. Church attendance is always up before the big push," said First Sergeant Miles Thatford.

"Sometimes, all you've got is God."

Between the service's electric guitar religious tunes, marines stepped up on the chapel's small stage and recited a verse of scripture, meant to fortify them for war.

One spoke of their Old Testament hero, a shepherd who would become Israel's king, battling the Philistines some 3,000 years ago.

"Thus David prevailed over the Philistines," the marine said, reading from scripture, and the marines shouted back "Hoorah, King David," using their signature grunt of approval.

The marines drew parallels from the verse with their present situation, where they perceive themselves as warriors fighting barbaric men opposed to all that is good in the world.

"Victory belongs to the Lord," another young marine read.

Their chaplain, named Horne, told the worshippers they were stationed outside Fallujah to bring the Iraqis "freedom from oppression, rape, torture and murder ... We ask you God to bless us in that effort."

The marines then lined up and their chaplain blessed them with holy oil to protect them.

"God's people would be annointed with oil," the chaplain said, as he lightly dabbed oil on the marines' foreheads.

The crowd then followed him outside their small auditorium for a baptism of about a half-dozen marines who had just found Christ.

The young men lined up and at least three of them stripped down to their shorts.

The three laid down in a rubber dinghy filled with water and the chaplain's assistant, Navy corpsman Richard Vaughn, plunged their heads beneath the surface.

Smiling, Vaughn baptised them "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."

Dripping wet, Corporal Keith Arguelles beamed after his baptism.

"I just wanted to make sure I did this before I headed into the fight," he said on the military base not far from the city of Fallujah.

END
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Old 11-06-2004, 01:05 PM   #2
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Your thread title is simply designed to get a rise out of people.

There is a considerable difference between a war directed by a religious leader (like a Pope) and individual soldiers looking to their own faith for strength when facing a difficult task.

There is also a considerable difference between a personal saving faith and following the writings of Jesus.
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Old 11-06-2004, 01:06 PM   #3
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It is with mixed emotions that I come away from reading that article.

I feel a lump of sickness in my belly, a sting of sadness in my eyes, and a palpatation of fear in my chest. I don't know how to debate this... I just don't. These men and women, they are so brave. They are naked and vulnerable. It just breaks my heart.

I don't know if I am prepared for this showdown in Falluja as I sit in the comfort of my own home. If I feel this way, I can't imagine... for a second... what those soldiers are feeling as they make their way to the front lines. God help them and everyone.

I can't stop thinking that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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Old 11-06-2004, 01:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Your thread title is simply designed to get a rise out of people.

There is a considerable difference between a war directed by a religious leader (like a Pope) and individual soldiers looking to their own faith for strength when facing a difficult task.

There is also a considerable difference between a personal saving faith and following the writings of Jesus.
The Iraqis should be marching into Falluhah. This is supposed to be happening with a new Iraqi government.

It does not help that Bush said freedom is a gift from the Almighty and he is doing HIS work.

We should have learned that the US can not fight other people's wars.
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Old 11-06-2004, 01:29 PM   #5
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Desperate times call for desperate measures. It's not unusual for people in a crisis situation or after a traumatic experience to turn to religion. Perhaps it is more productive to see how in the future we can stop people for getting into these situations. Unfortunately the usual suspects have been re-elected, so there goes that plan.
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Old 11-06-2004, 02:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

There is also a considerable difference between a personal saving faith and following the writings of Jesus.
i'm not sure what you mean here, but jesus never wrote anything.

as far as the post goes, i just read this article too. somewhat disturbing that people appeal to god to protect them whilst they kill others.
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Old 11-06-2004, 02:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en
i'm not sure what you mean here, but jesus never wrote anything.

as far as the post goes, i just read this article too. somewhat disturbing that people appeal to god to protect them whilst they kill others.
The writings of what Jesus said. (Though, many consider the Bible to be the Word of God - therefore, the Word of Jesus).


I don't know why we are so surprised by this. People have turned to their faith for difficult tasks they face, including those facing battle, for centuries.

Otherwise, the implication is that Christians could never be part of an army.
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Old 11-06-2004, 03:41 PM   #8
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Murphy's Law of Combat Number 25; There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole.
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Old 11-06-2004, 11:56 PM   #9
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nbcrusader - which post in FYM isn't done to get a rise out of people?

Of all the people in FYM to raise this idea -

SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER....
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Old 11-07-2004, 04:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Your thread title is simply designed to get a rise out of people.

There is a considerable difference between a war directed by a religious leader (like a Pope) and individual soldiers looking to their own faith for strength when facing a difficult task.

There is also a considerable difference between a personal saving faith and following the writings of Jesus.
I guess you never saw that picture off the thank with * this comes from God * painted on the barrel.


I need to google now,.....
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Old 11-07-2004, 04:37 AM   #11
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Your thread title is simply designed to get a rise out of people.

thats a bad thing?

I dont see how we can "win " this war.
But I can see how we and the other countries over there are trying to make a difference. but the rebels will always destroy that work..always....cuz they are insane...in my eyes..in thier eyes they are fighting for thier god doing HIS work

being an athiest somehow makes sense to me after typing that...

BUt I would definately turn to god If I was one of those guys.
gettin right with GOd is important before you die.....
= (
sad but true
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Old 11-07-2004, 04:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by carrieluvv
BUt I would definately turn to god If I was one of those guys.
gettin right with GOd is important before you die.....
= (
sad but true

Personally, I think it is incredibly ignorant to take the word crusade and put it in the thread title over this article.

Ever worn the uniform of a soldier? Anyone in here besides a few of us?

Ever had bullets shot over your head?


Carrieluvv.....you summed it up perfectly.
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Old 11-07-2004, 05:44 AM   #13
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My 2 cents...

I believe that it is okay for individuals to take a religion or believe in a God, but when you use the name of your God as an excuse to go to war (ie statements from Bush, various Iraqi's, keep looking through history you'll find heaps of examples..) I believe this is very, very wrong.

These soldiers are not doing any different to any other soldier has done in previous battles, but when you get people stating things like "You are the sovereign. You're name is holy. You are the pure spotless lamb" and "Victory belongs to the Lord" how is that ever going to sort this mess out.

This war, is about politics not religion. The religion is being used to polarise people (ie, our Lord is the good guy and yours is the baddie..... yeah, right!)

Anyway, enough ranting....

(And now we take you back to your regularly scheduled program...)
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Old 11-07-2004, 06:20 AM   #14
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I'm not looking forward to this showdown. I think quite possibly it is too late to "win" this war.
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Old 11-07-2004, 06:30 AM   #15
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Give these guys a break. They are not waging religous war. They are going possibly to their doom and likely have seen a lot of death around them. If expressing faith gives them strength and courage, why criticize them?

The most disturbing thing to me was the part where the reporter wrote 'you're' when it should have been 'your.' Has fuctional illiteracy overtaken even the media?

"your" denotes possession (such as YOUR name, which is how it was used)

"you're" is a contraction for 'you are'

Sorry, every third grader should know this
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