Ongoing Mass Shootings Thread pt 2
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deep
Blue Crack Addict
I believe in gun control, anyone who has paid attention to my many years of posting in here would know that.
But when someone posts something that is in error, pointing it out should be the reasonable thing to do on a discussion board.
But when someone posts something that is in error, pointing it out should be the reasonable thing to do on a discussion board.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
deep is uh, in the right here.
It's not supporting guns. If you don't have the facts straight, you create a combative environment. A good guy with a gun did help. 26 people died - open carry doesn't protect everyone. Clearly.
It's not supporting guns. If you don't have the facts straight, you create a combative environment. A good guy with a gun did help. 26 people died - open carry doesn't protect everyone. Clearly.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
A good guy with a gun helped. He did not prevent. He is not the answer.
The good guy with a gun prevented this from moving into the top 2 worst mass shootings in modern American history.
Hooray, the NRA is right!
Good for this guy for doing what he did... but making him the focus is again a shift away from discussing the real issues, guns, and how we're the only fucking western country on Earth where this shit happens.
Hooray, the NRA is right!
Good for this guy for doing what he did... but making him the focus is again a shift away from discussing the real issues, guns, and how we're the only fucking western country on Earth where this shit happens.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
I have lived in CA my whole life, by NRA standards we have bad gun laws here.
I think they are ok and do not want them relaxed.
Texas gun laws seem very problematic to me, don't they allow them on college campuses?
If that's the case with all the excessive drinking and reported assaults, seems like a poor decission.
But back to the point, what Trump said, this time, seems to be more correct than a WTF moment.
I think they are ok and do not want them relaxed.
Texas gun laws seem very problematic to me, don't they allow them on college campuses?
If that's the case with all the excessive drinking and reported assaults, seems like a poor decission.
But back to the point, what Trump said, this time, seems to be more correct than a WTF moment.
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deep
Blue Crack Addict
Lets be honest, both sides exploited the hell out of these tragedies.
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
The reason nothing even happens after one of these tragedies is that politicians in both parties aren't being honest about the terms of the debate. Republicans aren't being honest with their brain dead ideas about an armed citizenry being safer and "guns don't kill people, people kill people" rubbish. And Democrats aren't being honest when they trot out the rote suggestion that "common sense gun control" measures are going to stop or even significantly reduce gun violence. The reason the Republicans lie is because they're afraid of the NRA; the reason Democrats lie is because if they spoke out loud what really needs to happen (what the honest ones know needs to happen) they'd never win another election.
I’m all for sensible gun control legislation. Background checks, waiting periods, gun free zones, etc. Everything everyone is talking about when it comes to these kind of “common sense” reforms. By all means. It’s absurd that the US doesn’t have that kind of no-brainer regulation. It should be something all sane people can agree on. It’s to the NRA’s (which was once a responsible organisation for genuine enthusiasts) shame that they reflexively block even modest gun regulation. And they do, every single time.
That said, in my opinion, the gun violence problem is so pervasive in the US that none of these half measures are going to make much difference. They’re certainly not going to stop kind the mass shootings that typically are the catalyst for increased gun control legislation. If you want to make a real difference you have to get the guns, all of them pretty much. The hand guns and the automatic weapons. Do what we do in the UK and what they did in Australia and then you’ll have a lot less people dying. Well, people will still die, but not of gunshot wounds.
And make no mistake, THAT's what it's going to take. All this other stuff is just half measures. Of course, to get the guns you first have to do something about the Second Amendment. Or at least get a SCOTUS that interprets it differently.
I’m all for sensible gun control legislation. Background checks, waiting periods, gun free zones, etc. Everything everyone is talking about when it comes to these kind of “common sense” reforms. By all means. It’s absurd that the US doesn’t have that kind of no-brainer regulation. It should be something all sane people can agree on. It’s to the NRA’s (which was once a responsible organisation for genuine enthusiasts) shame that they reflexively block even modest gun regulation. And they do, every single time.
That said, in my opinion, the gun violence problem is so pervasive in the US that none of these half measures are going to make much difference. They’re certainly not going to stop kind the mass shootings that typically are the catalyst for increased gun control legislation. If you want to make a real difference you have to get the guns, all of them pretty much. The hand guns and the automatic weapons. Do what we do in the UK and what they did in Australia and then you’ll have a lot less people dying. Well, people will still die, but not of gunshot wounds.
And make no mistake, THAT's what it's going to take. All this other stuff is just half measures. Of course, to get the guns you first have to do something about the Second Amendment. Or at least get a SCOTUS that interprets it differently.
Nah.
Correct response would be "holy shit, enough is enough, we need to do something, I'm issuing an executive order that will lock both houses of Congress in a room together with minimal food and water until they can come to a reasonable compromise"
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
I wonder what is a "reasonable compromise" that Republicans and Democrats could come to that would significantly reduce the amount of gun violence...to say nothing of mass shootings.
In other words, what are these magical "common sense gun control" measures that are going to stop this stuff?
In other words, what are these magical "common sense gun control" measures that are going to stop this stuff?
That's the thing, I don't think there is a solution like that.
The only thing that will work is to reduce the number of guns, and regulate the shit out of the ones that people can still own.
Either that, or we have to figure out a way for men to not get angry anymore.
The only thing that will work is to reduce the number of guns, and regulate the shit out of the ones that people can still own.
Either that, or we have to figure out a way for men to not get angry anymore.
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
The whole "common sense gun control" will sort all this out argument is nothing but political posturing. It's just as much as a lie as when the GOP says that the solution is good guys with guns.
I remember after one of these shootings, I can't remember which one, President Obama lamented that America can't seem to pass "common sense gun control" measures "like the UK and Australia".
In a way, that comment is complete garbage and 100% correct at the same time. It's garbage because in those countries "common sense gun control" means private citizens cant own most guns. Now tell Americans that and see if they regard that as "common sense gun control." That's what I mean about not being honest about the debate. Don't say "Australia did it, why can't we"...tell the truth and say "Yeah, we're going to need your guns. Pretty much all of them." I wonder what would happen if a US politician said that. Hmmmm. In Australia, the so-called buy back program was mandatory. See how that goes over in the US. To say nothing of the fact that the "common sense gun control" that are being held up as models are in countries that don't have a Second Amendment. So why even mention them, unless you've going to suggest repealing part of the Bill or Rights?
On the other hand, he was right in that if politicians are really serious about doing something about this, it's going to take that kind of solution. But of course most politicians in both parties don't have the courage to be honest with Americans and tell them that.
I remember after one of these shootings, I can't remember which one, President Obama lamented that America can't seem to pass "common sense gun control" measures "like the UK and Australia".
In a way, that comment is complete garbage and 100% correct at the same time. It's garbage because in those countries "common sense gun control" means private citizens cant own most guns. Now tell Americans that and see if they regard that as "common sense gun control." That's what I mean about not being honest about the debate. Don't say "Australia did it, why can't we"...tell the truth and say "Yeah, we're going to need your guns. Pretty much all of them." I wonder what would happen if a US politician said that. Hmmmm. In Australia, the so-called buy back program was mandatory. See how that goes over in the US. To say nothing of the fact that the "common sense gun control" that are being held up as models are in countries that don't have a Second Amendment. So why even mention them, unless you've going to suggest repealing part of the Bill or Rights?
On the other hand, he was right in that if politicians are really serious about doing something about this, it's going to take that kind of solution. But of course most politicians in both parties don't have the courage to be honest with Americans and tell them that.
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Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
i'm running out of sympathy.
kiwilad
Refugee
Have any of the amendments ever been abolished/repealed/amended? Is there any precedent?
kiwilad
Refugee
I don't want that country to be the leader of the free world any more.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
She’s just one dumb person on a morning talk show full of dumb people and watched by dumb people (including Trump, who tweets about things he sees on this show that make him angry), but this is an insight into the 33% of the population that still approves of him.
Fewer things incense me like a mass shooting. But I’m getting a little fed up. Like, what does anyone suspect, not justnwoth the laws, butnwith an entire media infrastructure willing to explain away mass death on the regular like this.
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Sure. The Twenty First Amendment (prohibition) comes to mind.
But beyond that, I can't think of any. Repealing an Amendment, or changing the Constitution, is extremely difficult, by design, under the best of circumstances. And in today's political environment it's essentially impossible.
Think about it...the only time it's been done is because everyone agreed it was time to let people have a drink again. Which I think is about the only thing Americans can agree on today.
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LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
In your legal opinion, instead of focusing on change, why not focus on the original intent and what a well regulated militia really means?
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
That would mean changing the makeup of the Supreme Court, and currently the SCOTUS (with a good deal of precedent behind it) views the Second Amendment as an individual, not collective, right. See District of Columbia v. Heller.
Of course, there's lots of legal scholarship on both sides of this issue, but at the end of the day the Constitution means what the SCOTUS says it means. So you either change the Constitution, or you change the Court.
Of course, there's lots of legal scholarship on both sides of this issue, but at the end of the day the Constitution means what the SCOTUS says it means. So you either change the Constitution, or you change the Court.
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
I'd prefer a hospital, but okay.
A ban on semi automatic and automatic weapons
ALL firearms registered
A ban on high capacity magazines and gun modifications
End the gun show loop hole
Require licensing for all gun owners
Full and thorough background checks on all gun purchasers
Nationwide voluntary buy back programs
ALL firearms registered
A ban on high capacity magazines and gun modifications
End the gun show loop hole
Require licensing for all gun owners
Full and thorough background checks on all gun purchasers
Nationwide voluntary buy back programs
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
While this fictitious leader is at it, he or she might as well start saying "big government" and embracing it.
I forgot one... Allow the relatives of victims to sue gun makers.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
One thing that would help in many of these “it’s a mental illness problem not a gun problem’ shootings, is regulating and require background checks on the purchase of ammo and ammo filling supplies.
We do have a horrible problem with mental illness in this country. It needs to be addressed.
But until some loony stabs 50 people to death, the focus should be on the guns.
But until some loony stabs 50 people to death, the focus should be on the guns.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
The U.K. has virtually no access to guns.
Find a terrorist incident of any kind that wasn't a bomb that managed double digits. It probably doesn't exist.
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
Yes. My mom and I were talking about that recently. Bars are now held liable for their customers' welfare, to the point where they could risk losing their licenses if they don't see to it their customers are safe. That same method should definitely apply to gun sellers and makers.
I'm not even going to click on that link about that lady's comments, because I don't want to risk breaking my computer screen. The comments in response to it give me enough of an idea of the stupidity. I'm definitely with Irvine in losing any sympathy for the pro-gun side. I really, truly do not give a damn what their feelings are on this issue.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Absolutely. But you’re a hypocritical groupthink when you’re saying this as you also cheer on the gutting of a healthcare bill that at least started to address it.
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