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Old 06-14-2016, 10:39 PM   #916
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Written by a former extremist

Admit It: These Terrorists Are Muslims - The Daily Beast




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Haha, Maajid Nawaz. Why not just get Bill Maher or Sam Harris to write the exact same article.
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:59 PM   #917
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Haha, Maajid Nawaz. Why not just get Bill Maher or Sam Harris to write the exact same article.

Don't you know Maajid Nawaz isn't a *real* Muslim, Beal? I mean, can't you tell by his opinions? Definitely not the right opinions.


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Old 06-14-2016, 11:04 PM   #918
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Don't you know Maajid Nawaz isn't a *real* Muslim, Beal? I mean, can't you tell by his opinions? Definitely not the right opinions.


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BVS like to decide what opinions are valid in FYM. Perhaps he can vett the true believers.


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Old 06-14-2016, 11:08 PM   #919
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Don't you know Maajid Nawaz isn't a *real* Muslim, Beal? I mean, can't you tell by his opinions? Definitely not the right opinions.


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I'm not BEAL.
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Old 06-14-2016, 11:08 PM   #920
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I'm not BEAL.

I believe in your ability to figure this reply out.


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Old 06-14-2016, 11:09 PM   #921
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BVS like to decide what opinions are valid in FYM. Perhaps he can vett the true believers.


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please


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Old 06-14-2016, 11:10 PM   #922
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Another vigil today, this time at UCF.

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Old 06-14-2016, 11:13 PM   #923
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So lovely to see these vigils and tributes everywhere . Always nice to be reminded there's still good, caring, supportive people in the world.
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Old 06-14-2016, 11:17 PM   #924
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I believe in your ability to figure this reply out.


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I wasn't suggesting Nawaz wasn't a 'real' Muslim, just that he and his opinions stink.
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Old 06-14-2016, 11:24 PM   #925
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I wasn't suggesting Nawaz wasn't a 'real' Muslim, just that he and his opinions stink.

Fair enough, that's the general critique of Nawaz from the left side of things.

I'm curious as to what you find disagreeable about his thoughts on Islamism, though


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Old 06-14-2016, 11:54 PM   #926
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ongoing mass shootings thread

I've been fairly numb to this incident. I suppose my left brain tells me that a shooting can happen anywhere, and people in Paris were murdered in cafes and at rock concerts, and that I'm no more or less safe than I was on Friday night when I was drinking beer with friends in a rooftop gay bar on a gorgeous summer evening during Pride weekend. This particular event hits an intensely sensitive issue for me -- guns. Fewer things incense me more than the gun lobby, and their supporters, and even so-called "responsible" owners who refuse any responsibility let alone connection to an event like this. It's been easy for me to process this as yet another senseless gun tragedy. Yes, I wonder what I would do if a gunman armed with a legally processed AR-15 came into a big gay club I'm often found at on weekends. Would I get out? Be trapped in a bathroom? Play dead? Get shot in the head and be actual dead before my brains splatter on the floor? But I wonder these things about a workplace shooting. Such is life in an America where a small but powerful group holds us all hostage to a perverted notion of "freedom." I'd like to be free of that fear, please.

But witnessing the continued, heartfelt, highly emotional expressions of grief by my fellow LGBTQers in my FB feed makes me realize that by centering this around guns I'm guilty of an erasure of the specifically LGBTQ mass murder that took place. We've been bashed in Philadelphia, we've been murdered in New Orleans, we've been thrown off buildings in Syria executed in Iran and thrown into ovens in Auschwitz. There was mass death via plague in the 1980s and 1990s. I was having trouble connecting Saturday to those events, and also locating myself in any and all of those narratives. I'm white, male, educated, urban, salaried, married -- it's easy to not feel particularly oppressed (though was a journey to get here ... self-acceptance occasionally slips away).

I've also found myself listening to Hamilton, loudly, repeatedly, emotionally, and my only tears so far were during LMM's Tony acceptance speech where he said "love is love is love is love is love is love." The power of that music and my response was indication that there's something I've been avoiding.

In the way that a gun takes away your right to life in the most unfair way possible, this is a reminder that some view us as inherently unworthy of life as well. Safe spaces can be destroyed. We are still not safe. Indeed, no one really is, but we are not safe for a reason different than that of a straight person. We are still a feared minority, we are still objects of loathing (perhaps even by some of our own) because of who we are. No matter how high you rise, how many privileges you are afforded in other avenues of life, you are still just a faggot or dyke or tranny in some eyes. And less than human.

This is a major LGBTQ tragedy. It's our tragedy. I'd been avoiding that. I won't any longer.
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Old 06-15-2016, 12:15 AM   #927
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I wish people would stop distributing this rumor that the shooter was gay. Such a headline feels like we've stepped back 20 years, and we are somehow shaming him or his kind by laughing at his potential sexuality.

The fact that he had been to the bar several times and used gay social media just as much supports the idea that he's maniacal and was plotting this act. Maybe he was repressed and self hating, I don't know. But until a guy comes out and says he engaged in some form of homosexual act with him, I wish people would stop accusing that. I don't know if I'm saying this correctly or not. But yeah, I'd like to imagine he wasn't gay. So maybe I have a bias there.

But something I've always hated is the labeling of people based upon indirect evidence (i.e. flamboyance or a high voice).
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Old 06-15-2016, 12:45 AM   #928
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ongoing mass shootings thread

It just came out tonight that Disney's sophisticated security alerted the FBI when they detected Omar casing their locations in Orlando back in April.

The FBI has a lot to answer for.


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Old 06-15-2016, 12:59 AM   #929
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It just came out tonight that Disney's sophisticated security alerted the FBI when they detected Omar casing their locations in Orlando back in April.

The FBI has a lot to answer for.


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Link? From what I've read, this is alerting the FBI post-shooting. Not pre-shooting.
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Old 06-15-2016, 01:00 AM   #930
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I wish people would stop distributing this rumor that the shooter was gay. Such a headline feels like we've stepped back 20 years, and we are somehow shaming him or his kind by laughing at his potential sexuality.

The fact that he had been to the bar several times and used gay social media just as much supports the idea that he's maniacal and was plotting this act. Maybe he was repressed and self hating, I don't know. But until a guy comes out and says he engaged in some form of homosexual act with him, I wish people would stop accusing that. I don't know if I'm saying this correctly or not. But yeah, I'd like to imagine he wasn't gay. So maybe I have a bias there.

But something I've always hated is the labeling of people based upon indirect evidence (i.e. flamboyance or a high voice).
I would normally agree! Particularly when it comes to mental illness. But I think it has relevance in this case - because if this person was someone who was in the closet, had used gay apps, been a regular at the club, etc, if this person was gay, then I think it adds to the discussion around just how heteronormative our society is, and how frowned upon homosexuality still is, whether it's in religion or not.

Going on from Irvine's excellent, wonderful post above, perhaps there's a discussion to be had that society still deems homosexuality as unacceptable, and that that fact eventually drove a closeted gay man to murder a room full of LGBT people in an LGBT club.

Perhaps, if as a society we didn't constantly diminish homosexuality, this man may have felt more comfortable in his own skin and not murdered 50 people. If the homophobia that we try to sweep under the carpet didn't exist, maybe those 50 people would still be alive today.
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