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Old 09-17-2013, 02:36 PM   #16
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I hate to admit, but my reaction yesterday was just, "Oh, another mass shooting." Seriously didn't even watch any news coverage yesterday other than a few seconds walking through the lobby at work.
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:15 PM   #17
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Foreigners say they are no longer surprised at U.S. gun violence

[...]

Foreigners say they are no longer surprised by U.S. gun violence - The Washington Post
I'm sorry to say, but this was also my reaction yesterday.
In a way, I'm hoping someone with influence will address the (U.S.A.) nation and say "You want this to happen. And if you don't want this, then do something about it!"
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:24 PM   #18
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Yeah, to be honest, that is the general response I hear around here as well.

It's not like it can't be expected, with the current US Gun policies.
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:33 PM   #19
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:37 PM   #20
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I never have, and never will, buy the video game or violent music argument.

There are millions upon millions of games sold around the world every year. So while mass shootings happen everywhere, why is it that this seems to be a U.S.-centric issue? There is more at play here besides video games.
Agreed, if I were American I would find this excuse to be insulting, tbh.
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:47 PM   #21
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Perhaps this thread should be called the Ongoing exploitation of tragedies to advance old political agendas.

More gun control, nationalized health care and even sequester budget cuts have all been tied to this event. Unfortunately, these claims are not supported by the facts of this incident.

The AR-15 was the first political target. Despite being functionally the same as most rifles, the AR-15 gets elevated as a causal factor in this incident. Now, once some facts are examined, it appears Aaron Alexis had only a shotgun. And it is not clear if he even fired the shotgun. Alexis stole weapons (handguns) from guards at the Navy Yard and used those in his attack. An AR-15 was never in the equation.

Of course, when discussion the assault rifles, no one ever mentions the 1.5 to 3.2 Million AR-15s (estimates of the number of AR-15s in the US vary greatly) that have not and never been used in a crime. If something is used lawfully on such a wide scale basis, it cannot inherently be the cause of a problem.

Healthcare was next on the political agenda with claims that the absence of mental health was a causal factor in the incident. Facts now show that not only did Aaron Alexis have access to mental health care, he utilized it. Availability and treatment did not prevent this tragedy.

There are plenty of different factors that contributed to this event and as long as we stick to a couple of broad political brush strokes, we will never find a solution to this problem.
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:59 PM   #22
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people do say this all the time. but there is a baffling (to me) gun culture in the US, and, in my opinion, a warped understanding of what we mean by the word "freedom."

the vast majority of gun owners are responsible and law abiding. the vast majority of mentally ill people do not go on shooting rampages.

yet this happens here. frequently.

i'm almost done reading Freedom, and some of this makes sense:

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“It’s all circling around the same problem of personal liberties,” Walter said. “People came to this country for either money or freedom. If you don’t have money, you cling to your freedoms all the more angrily. Even if smoking kills you, even if you can’t afford to feed your kids, even if your kids are getting shot down by maniacs with assault rifles. You may be poor, but the one thing nobody can take away from you is the freedom to fuck up your life whatever way you want to.”
― Jonathan Franzen, Freedom
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:00 PM   #23
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So basically do nothing. We've done that and it's working out great.

I've accepted that this is a way of life here in the states. Even the simplist most common sense regulations are fought as some crime against liberty.

And yet I kind of see the Russian side/shot at us....we always hear in media how great we are. Yet these types of killings happen over and over.

While there are very few places, if any I'd trade to live, it definitely is a black eye
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by nbcrusader View Post
Perhaps this thread should be called the Ongoing exploitation of tragedies to advance old political agendas.

More gun control, nationalized health care and even sequester budget cuts have all been tied to this event. Unfortunately, these claims are not supported by the facts of this incident.

The AR-15 was the first political target. Despite being functionally the same as most rifles, the AR-15 gets elevated as a causal factor in this incident. Now, once some facts are examined, it appears Aaron Alexis had only a shotgun. And it is not clear if he even fired the shotgun. Alexis stole weapons (handguns) from guards at the Navy Yard and used those in his attack. An AR-15 was never in the equation.

Of course, when discussion the assault rifles, no one ever mentions the 1.5 to 3.2 Million AR-15s (estimates of the number of AR-15s in the US vary greatly) that have not and never been used in a crime. If something is used lawfully on such a wide scale basis, it cannot inherently be the cause of a problem.

Healthcare was next on the political agenda with claims that the absence of mental health was a causal factor in the incident. Facts now show that not only did Aaron Alexis have access to mental health care, he utilized it. Availability and treatment did not prevent this tragedy.

There are plenty of different factors that contributed to this event and as long as we stick to a couple of broad political brush strokes, we will never find a solution to this problem.


and yet a mentally ill person shot a bunch of people a few miles from where i live with a variety of weapons. he has a long record of mental illness as well as criminal issues related to gun crimes.

but mental health and guns and the enforcement of gun laws aren't the issue here.

what, pray tell, is?
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:55 PM   #25
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mental health and guns
Some how - some way - we have to keep this deadly combination from occurring.

If you are a gun enthusiast, why in the world would you not want to do everything you can to prevent this marriage? Almost every one of the atrocities is committed by a mentally sick man with a gun. If you don't want the government to take your guns, then you should support the efforts to make certain that guns do not fall into the hands of the mentally ill.

Background checks and mental health evaluations must be a part of the equation.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:01 PM   #26
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Notable pompous asshole Pierce Morgan last night used the shooting to go on a rant about how evil and horrible AR-15's are. He had a psychiatrist and was basically baiting the guy trying to get him to say its the guns that are making these things happen. And thats not what the guy was saying at all. He was saying the mental health system is to blame. And then Morgan repeatedly kept twisting his words and rephrasing the questions to get him to say what he wanted to say. It was really pathetic to watch.

Oh and wait, this guy didn't use an AR-15? He used a shotgun?? Shit are shotguns even legal in DC? that's surprising.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:25 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by nbcrusader View Post
Perhaps this thread should be called the Ongoing exploitation of tragedies to advance old political agendas.
Most of the people making this claim exploited the "debt crisis" to advance the political agenda of "prevent Barack Obama's re-election at all costs." So forgive me if I'm relatively dismissive of them on face value.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:11 PM   #28
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Sorry but this "assault weapon" language is all bullshit. It's made up to demonize scary-looking guns that have the same function and are NO MORE lethal than non-"assault weapons." Not to mention that they are used the LEAST in these mass shootings.





I think it's just because the scary-looking guns are BLACK , isn't it???
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:50 PM   #29
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This guy used a shotgun so all the other shootings never happened. Sure. Whatever. Okay, guys. Wrap it up and go home ALL THE WEAPONS ARE GOOD.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:42 PM   #30
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Notable pompous asshole Pierce Morgan last night used the shooting to go on a rant about how evil and horrible AR-15's are. He had a psychiatrist and was basically baiting the guy trying to get him to say its the guns that are making these things happen. And thats not what the guy was saying at all. He was saying the mental health system is to blame. And then Morgan repeatedly kept twisting his words and rephrasing the questions to get him to say what he wanted to say. It was really pathetic to watch.

Oh and wait, this guy didn't use an AR-15? He used a shotgun?? Shit are shotguns even legal in DC? that's surprising.

I agree that Piers Morgan is an idiot.
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