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Old 02-16-2003, 09:08 PM   #1
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One Term President

I know the polls indicate Bush has remendous popularity. I am however of the firm belief that President Bush will not be re-elected if the right candidate comes along.

As a republican I am not happy with:

* out of control deficit spending
* tax cuts when our states are in crisis situations
* expanding the federal governement with the Homeland Security Agency, when we have agencies that should be doing this job.
* the "No Child Left Behind" education plan which basically says test the children, test the children, test the children and provides little or no resources to improve the problems in education
* the loss of the world's goodwill after 9/11
* the problem with North Korea
* the inability to prevent 9/11 and the failure to investigate the shortfalls that led to 9/11
* the loss of cantury old allies
* the disrespect shown towards our allies


Soooooo where does that leave me?
Not a single Democrat on the slate so far excites me.

I think I may have found my candidate. Gen. Wesley Clark. He was on Meet the Press this morning.

Here is a clip.

MR. RUSSERT: There is an article in The Washington Post today, General. It says that part of the reason that France and Russia and Germany and others are giving the United States such a hard time about Iraq is they disagree on the views but also it’s a payback for the heavy-handed and bullying tactics of the last two years of the Bush foreign policy. Do you agree with that?

GEN. CLARK: I do agree with that. I think that’s exactly what they’ve seen and felt in Europe from this administration. It’s an administration which really hasn’t respected our allies. And, frankly, there are a lot of differences and perspectives with our allies in Europe.
One thing I learned in the Kosovo campaign is that if you’re going to have allies, the unfortunate thing is they have their own opinions. And if you really want allies, you got to listen to their opinions, you’ve got to take them seriously, you’ve got to work with their issues. Every one of our allied leaders is an elected leader, at least in Europe. And that means they have domestic politics and political factors at home and economic factors at home that influence their opinions. And those have to be respected just like we would expect them to respect us for our political system in the United States.
If we deal with our allies on a basis of respect, if we give them the opportunity and the evidence and the arguments and the analysis that’s needed to help shape their public opinions, then we can expect them to go along with us.

MR. RUSSERT: You have written extensively about Iraq: an article in Time, Let’s Wait to Attack; an interview with The Washington Post, A General’s Doubts. I want to go through some of your points. This is how The Post characterized it: “Clark fears that the new dangers generated by a war in Iraq might outweigh any gains from disarming Saddam Hussein. Clark cites three tests that the administration must meet before going to war. ...Are you sure you won’t destroy the international institutions you say you are supporting, and thereby undermine the war against terror?”
Are we destroying the institutions we are supporting?

GEN. CLARK: Well, we’re shaking really strongly right now. We’ve put both NATO and the U.N. on the block here and demanded they support us. So as we’re moving ahead here, we’ve got to be careful and not just use brute force against these institutions. We’ve got to provide the arguments, the analysis, the evidence, the time, the sense of responsibility. We’ve got to allow opinion to come along to our side on this.


SO who would you most like to see run for President in the next election?
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Old 02-16-2003, 09:12 PM   #2
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MR. RUSSERT: Do you think Saddam will use chemical weapons against U.S. military?
GEN. CLARK: I think he’ll certainly try. I’d be surprised if he’s very successful.
MR. RUSSERT: Should we respond with nuclear, if he does?
GEN. CLARK: No. There’s no reason to do that. We’re going to roll him up so fast.
MR. RUSSERT: As you look at this situation now, should the inspectors be allowed more time? Should we hold back going to war with Saddam Hussein?
GEN. CLARK: Well, I think we should right now, simply because we want to get our allies on board.
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Old 02-16-2003, 09:15 PM   #3
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Instead of me posting this bit by bit, I sincerely think, many of you on all sides will enjoy reading what General Clark has to say.

Take a moment to check out the link. The beginning of the program is Dr. Rice. The second half is General Clark. Feedback on his comments is appreciated.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/873682.asp
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Old 02-16-2003, 09:18 PM   #4
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that link brought me back to this thread.
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Old 02-16-2003, 09:18 PM   #5
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oops
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Old 02-16-2003, 09:20 PM   #6
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Fixed I think!!!!
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Old 02-16-2003, 09:28 PM   #7
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Old 02-16-2003, 09:30 PM   #8
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Granted we have no clue on his social or economic plans ect....

But in the theater of the world he does seem to have a VERY intelligent grasp of things.
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Old 02-16-2003, 09:34 PM   #9
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a good independent should run...what's tim penny doing?

it's hard to say who looks like a good candidate for president for 2004. i think it's far too early to even be thinking about a candidate. presidential campaigns should be limited from may to november of the election year alone. if the democrats decide to elect joe schmoe as their candidate, what happens if he dies, has a scandal, or if they decide that she, in fact, isn't the best candidate to run? that's why election things should be kept waiting until at LEAST the YEAR of the election - then at least we wouldn't have to suffer through election ad-nauseum as long.







by the way, is tom daschle still looking at running?
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Old 02-16-2003, 09:35 PM   #10
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Re: a good independent should run...what's tim penny doing?

Quote:
Originally posted by Lilly


by the way, is tom daschle still looking at running?
nope not last I checked.
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Old 02-16-2003, 10:08 PM   #11
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Re: One Term President

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

As a republican I am not happy with:


SO who would you most like to see run for President in the next election?
* out of control deficit spending
Deficit Spending?.. The incredible amount of money spent the past two years was a Chamberlainesque appeasment strategy employed by K. Rove to give the Democrats at least half of what it was they wanted, to pave the way for a Republican sweep in the 2002 elections.. Bush has said many times that he wants fiscal restraint in the legislation.. But That huuge Farm bill, Education Bill, Airport Security Bill, were the brainchilds of Teddy Kennedy and Tom Daschle... It was Bush's apparent 'New Tone' in the White House that prevented him from vetoing these things.

* tax cuts when our states are in crisis situations
Tax Cuts have not been implemented in any sort of fashion other than a ceremonious 600 dollar payback.. They've had no effect whatsoever on anything.

* expanding the federal governement with the Homeland Security Agency, when we have agencies that should be doing this job.

As with the Patriot Act, the People of America wanted to see something done, no matter how much BS it really is.. We had the whistleblower fiasco.. Something was done.. hence.. Homeland Security.. Frankly this wouldn't be a big deal if there already had not been millions spent to federalize Janitors at the airports.


* the loss of the world's goodwill after 9/11

There are many many reasons why some of our allies have turned their back on us.. Perhaps it is because we have a president who points out the irrelevance of the United Nations, Is not going to Compromise our best interests to appease European Elitists, And then again, as with the BUrnings of McDonalds in France by Parisian farmers, Perhaps they're jealous at the superiority of the American influence.


* the problem with North Korea
The problem with North Korea is one Instigated by our recent Nobel Prize Winner Jimmy Carter.. Nice going there pal.. However, it is nowhere near as serious as it seems.. As their country is just on the brink of imploding... Oddly enough the American Influenced South Korea is prospering.. hmmm.. as if it were a mini model of America. North Korea is not attacking anyone anytime soon, but notice what the UN is saying to us about that situation.. 'You Deal With It'.. a Striking difference to their words on Iraq..

*Failure to Prevent 911
It would have been very very difficult to prevent 911, just as it would be very difficult to prevent a radical islamist from walking into my local mall and exploding himself baptising himself America's first modern Homocide bomber.


* the loss of cantury old allies

Back to Allies.. Century Old?.. Yes, they are our age old allies, however, Who was it that sent thousands of men, and sacrificed thousands of lives to Rid Europe of Hitler and Rommel.. And who spent BIllions rebuilding GERMANY, FRANCE, and BELGIUM among others?.. Right America.. And in that same breath, we are responsible for the prospering nation that Germany became.. And hell, We're responsible for there even being a France..

Who was it that sent thousands more individuals to South Korea to prevent a muscled North Korean Army from invading its brother to the South... still to this day keeping a substantial military presence allowing South Korea to prosper? Again.. America..

It's sad to see that after all of these sacrifices that these countries hate us as much as the Arabs do... And even the Arabs and muslims the world around forget that just recently America stepped in when NATO was wringing its hands over Milosevic, put an end to the killing, Rescuing Muslims from death... Yet, muslims still hate AMerica?

I don't think you can truly blame America for these countries turning their backs on us.. And frankly, they too are showing their irrelevance.

* the disrespect shown towards our allies

Are you kidding me?.. How about the disrespect shown towards us. Refer to the above.


I think a lot of the animosity stems from a general fear of what happens if America succeeds in overthrowing Iraq and subsequently revolutionizes the Middle East into a modern and prosperous region...

1. America would be realistically THE only relevant force in the world.
2. Much of the world would become Americanized.
3. The EU would officially become a Country.. They would receive One Vote in the UN, and thier own individual little countries would be deemed insignificant on their own.

Dreadsox.. I've not always been happy with the leadership of America, though I've always felt we have had the right leaders for our country when we needed them.. I have this feeling about Bush. I do believe Bush to be a man of character with an internal compass guiding him to do what he believes is best... contrary to what propaganda will lead you to believe, or foreigners for that matter.. I think he is shaping his administration around this, and he will either sink or swim on his morality and his stances on the issues. He believes in the Tax Cuts, He had a bit of work to do when he obtained office, the terrorist attacks didn't help, but he believes they will work.. As they always have in the past, and He will either succeed or fail on how it does. The same with Iraq, and if that is a colossal failure, he will take responsibility and accept the will of the people.

The current term in not over yet, and Bush's priorities are not yet completed, so I wouldn't yet look elsewhere if you are a republican. Though at the moment I would not advise looking to the democrat party, as when Al Sharpton is finished turning that leaderless band upside down, that party will be unrecognizable for years to come..

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Old 02-16-2003, 10:11 PM   #12
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LOL....wow...where have you been when I was getting my but kicked in here?
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Old 02-16-2003, 10:24 PM   #13
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Dread,

For the most part I agree with your list.
I think about all of the things you listed, it is very disturbing.

I would add to this point

- the inability to prevent 9/11 and the failure to investigate the shortfalls that led to 9/11
.... the lack of solving the anthrax killings, I think there may be information they do not want out about this.
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Old 02-16-2003, 10:38 PM   #14
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Bush, Sr. was popular around the Gulf War, and look what happened to him? I hope Dubya here is dumped really quickly.

I liked former Vermont Governor Howard Dean from his preliminary comments. Direct. Unambiguous. A rarity.

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Old 02-17-2003, 02:59 AM   #15
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Re: One Term President

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I know the polls indicate Bush has remendous popularity. I am however of the firm belief that President Bush will not be re-elected if the right candidate comes along.

As a republican I am not happy with:

* out of control deficit spending
* tax cuts when our states are in crisis situations
* expanding the federal governement with the Homeland Security Agency, when we have agencies that should be doing this job.
* the "No Child Left Behind" education plan which basically says test the children, test the children, test the children and provides little or no resources to improve the problems in education
* the loss of the world's goodwill after 9/11
* the problem with North Korea
* the inability to prevent 9/11 and the failure to investigate the shortfalls that led to 9/11
* the loss of cantury old allies
* the disrespect shown towards our allies


Soooooo where does that leave me?
Not a single Democrat on the slate so far excites me.

I think I may have found my candidate. Gen. Wesley Clark. He was on Meet the Press this morning.

Here is a clip.

MR. RUSSERT: There is an article in The Washington Post today, General. It says that part of the reason that France and Russia and Germany and others are giving the United States such a hard time about Iraq is they disagree on the views but also it’s a payback for the heavy-handed and bullying tactics of the last two years of the Bush foreign policy. Do you agree with that?

GEN. CLARK: I do agree with that. I think that’s exactly what they’ve seen and felt in Europe from this administration. It’s an administration which really hasn’t respected our allies. And, frankly, there are a lot of differences and perspectives with our allies in Europe.
One thing I learned in the Kosovo campaign is that if you’re going to have allies, the unfortunate thing is they have their own opinions. And if you really want allies, you got to listen to their opinions, you’ve got to take them seriously, you’ve got to work with their issues. Every one of our allied leaders is an elected leader, at least in Europe. And that means they have domestic politics and political factors at home and economic factors at home that influence their opinions. And those have to be respected just like we would expect them to respect us for our political system in the United States.
If we deal with our allies on a basis of respect, if we give them the opportunity and the evidence and the arguments and the analysis that’s needed to help shape their public opinions, then we can expect them to go along with us.

MR. RUSSERT: You have written extensively about Iraq: an article in Time, Let’s Wait to Attack; an interview with The Washington Post, A General’s Doubts. I want to go through some of your points. This is how The Post characterized it: “Clark fears that the new dangers generated by a war in Iraq might outweigh any gains from disarming Saddam Hussein. Clark cites three tests that the administration must meet before going to war. ...Are you sure you won’t destroy the international institutions you say you are supporting, and thereby undermine the war against terror?”
Are we destroying the institutions we are supporting?

GEN. CLARK: Well, we’re shaking really strongly right now. We’ve put both NATO and the U.N. on the block here and demanded they support us. So as we’re moving ahead here, we’ve got to be careful and not just use brute force against these institutions. We’ve got to provide the arguments, the analysis, the evidence, the time, the sense of responsibility. We’ve got to allow opinion to come along to our side on this.


SO who would you most like to see run for President in the next election?
i am often, if not always flamboyantly against republican views on this board, but i would like to take the time to tell you that you have done your research to come up with the views that you hold. i commend that.
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