One Study About Teens' Use Of Condoms

[MrsSpringsteen]

By Maria Sacchetti, Boston Globe Staff | June 9, 2006

More Massachusetts teenagers who are sexually active are using condoms, according to a state survey released yesterday, 11 years after a landmark court ruling said schools could make them available to students.

The state survey, given to 3,500 teenagers in 51 high schools last year, shows that condom use has increased steadily since the Supreme Judicial Court ruled that schools could hand out condoms without parental consent.

``We're really happy to see that," said Sophie Godley, deputy director of the AIDS Action Committee of Massachusetts. ``It gives me tremendous faith that young people in this state are hearing this message and taking care of themselves. They're taking the risks and dangers of sexual activity very seriously, and they should."

Sexual activity among teenagers has increased as the Bay State battles over how to teach students about sex. About 45 percent of teenagers said they had had sexual intercourse at least once, up from 41 percent in 2003, according to the Youth Risk Behavior Survey, a poll of student health and safety given every two years here and nationwide.

Sixty-five percent of sexually active students said they used condoms, similar to the national average and up from 57 percent in 2003.

Two months ago, Governor Mitt Romney, who is weighing a bid for the presidency, announced that the state would spend nearly $1 million in federal funds for abstinence education programs in school systems with high teenage pregnancy rates, including Boston, Lawrence, Lynn, and Lowell.

Romney has insisted that his plan is not ``abstinence only," but critics fear it would undermine the progress Massachusetts has made through sex education and condom availability.

In 2004, teenage pregnancy reached a low of 22 births per 1,000, a rate that is significantly below the national average, according to the state Department of Public Health. HIV diagnoses among teenagers also remain rare here; the state recorded 11 cases in 2004.

``He's playing politics with kids' lives," said Sarah Wunsch, a staff attorney with the ACLU of Massachusetts. ``If kids are going to be sexually active, they should be using condoms."

Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom said abstinence should be the first choice for students, ``but if they're going to engage in risky behavior, they should definitely take precautions."

Lieutenant Governor Kerry Healey, who is running for governor, declined to comment on the survey. But in April she declined to fully back Romney's program and said she favored more comprehensive sex-education instruction.

It is unclear how readily available condoms are in Massachusetts schools, because the state doesn't track that. Schools that provide condoms generally do so through the school nurse's office, health centers, or vending machines. In 1991, Falmouth schools became some of the first in Massachusetts to hand out condoms, prompting a challenge from a group of parents who filed a lawsuit saying it infringed on their rights and religious freedoms. That suit triggered the 1995 SJC case that upheld the policy.

Cambridge Rindge and Latin School has a health center where students can request condoms, said principal Sybil Knight.

Holyoke, in Western Massachusetts, offers condoms in its high schools, with parents' permission, and also teaches abstinence, said Superintendent Eduardo Carballo.

``We believe that it is important for families to know what's going on, and it's the family's choice," Carballo said.

In Boston, school officials do not make condoms available, but students can get them at 13 school-based health centers, as long as they have permission from their parents and a referral from a primary care physician.

Sexual activity among teenagers had been declining for several years, from 47 percent in 1995 to 41 percent in 2003, until this year's increase.

Brian Camenker -- president of MassResistance (Oh God, not again ) a nonprofit group based in Waltham that advocates for parents' rights -- questioned the survey's findings because they are self-reported by teenagers. He called for schools to avoid teaching about sex or giving out condoms.

``It's a rotten idea," said Camenker. ``It creates more sexual activity, and it sends the message to kids that you're not really responsible."

The survey generally revealed positive trends in young people's personal health in the state. The survey found that only half of teenagers had tried cigarette smoking last year, down from 72 percent a decade ago. Binge drinking declined to 27 percent of students last year from a third in 1995.

But nearly 80 percent of students had taken a drink, similar to the response in 1995.

Only 13 percent of students seriously considered suicide, down from 26 percent in 1995. About 15 percent said they had carried a weapon, up slightly from 2003.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Another interesting study I read recently, it makes me sad that some girls feel that way and have sex because of it. Not all that surprising though, because honestly some very adult women do too sometimes.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Teenage girls commonly have sex not because they want to, but because they feel pressured into it — and the result may be a higher risk of sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy, a new study suggests.

Researchers found that among 279 teenage girls they interviewed, many said they'd given in to unwanted sex at some point because they were afraid their boyfriend would get angry.

The findings, published in the Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine, indicate that may teenagers — both female and male — need help in negotiating their relationships.

"We need to give guidance to teens on how to communicate with each other," said lead study author Dr. Margaret J. Blythe, a pediatrician at the Indiana University Medical Center in Indianapolis.

That means helping girls to take more control over their sexual activity, and boys to understand what constitutes pressure, according to Blythe.

The importance of educating boys, she told Reuters Health, "is often the untalked-about part."

The study included girls between the ages of 14 and 17 who were seen at urban health clinics in Indianapolis. Over about two years, the girls were periodically interviewed about their current relationships, including any instances of unwanted sex over the past three months. Specific questions included: "Would he break up with you unless you had sex?" and "Would he get mad if you didn't want to have sex?"

In all, 41 percent said they'd had unwanted sex at some point. The most common reason was fear that their boyfriend would become angry. Ten percent, though, said their partner forced them have sex when they didn't want to. About 5 percent said they'd had sex after being offered money or gifts.

Girls who reported unwanted sex also reported less condom use, a poorer relationship quality and a higher rate of pregnancy than their peers, the study found.

Other research has shown that unwanted sex, particularly in cases of rape, can lead to depression, anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder. The current findings, Blythe and her colleagues say, point to sexually transmitted diseases and unintended pregnancy as additional serious consequences.

Most of the girls in the study were black and lower-income, and it's not clear how representative the findings are of the general population. But the results are similar to those of some past studies, according to Blythe and her colleagues.


For example, girls who reported unwanted sex were more likely than their peers to have a partner who smoked marijuana, and other studies have linked drug and alcohol use to forced or unwanted sex.

Substance use can blur the line between consensual and non-consensual sex, the researchers write, and boys who use drugs or alcohol may become "less sensitive" to what their partners want or don't want.

 

[Angela Harlem]

I love this "It's a family decision" "Hey mum, I'm going to have sex tonight. Can you let dad know? I cant find a pen to write a note. Thanks" Really. It is utterly naive and ridiculous that this dick from MassResistance and others, think that a teenager is going to ask their parents permission for a sexual relationship. Teenagers do not seek approval or permission from the family. Obviously parents can do their best to raise their teen to make choices to wait and so on, and parents should. However, not all teens will listen. Not all teens have sensible concientious parents who wish to be a part of the decision for a teen to engage in sex. Not all parents think it is even their place and have faith that they have raised a teen who is capable of making a decision in their own time and will be safe in their choice.
This moron gives an impression to teens that he and others have no faith in them being responsible - that they aren't capable of responsibility. Way to forge a bond with that age group! Arse.

 

[fly so high!]

When my kids are around the "that age" (is 14 too young to start doing this???) stage of even thinking about sex......i'm goin to have a bowl filled with condoms on the vanity in the bathroom, and books titled:

But I Love Him: Protecting Your Teen Daughter from Controlling, Abusive Dating Relationships by Jill Murray

Adolescent Relationships and Drug Use
by Michael L. Hecht, Jess K. Alberts, Melanie R. Trost, Robert L. Krizek, Michelle A. Miller all ready for them at their disposal.

 

[nbcrusader]

Wouldn't talking to them about sex (and the physical, emotional, relational aspects) be more effective than a book and a "bowl full of condoms"?

 

[Irvine511]

Wouldn't talking to them about sex (and the physical, emotional, relational aspects) be more effective than a book and a "bowl full of condoms"?

why not do all these things? i think comprehensive sex education is the best way to decrease STD's and pregnancy as well as delay the age of first sexual intercourse.

i also think this shows that tackling the problem in a practical, non-ideological manner -- making condoms available, or to choose a correlatory example, a needle exchange program -- is the best way to combat disease and other social maladies.

i can't believe that people think that 16 year olds having protected sex is worse than transmitting an STD or an unwanted pregnancy.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

why not do all these things? i think comprehensive sex education is the best way to decrease STD's and pregnancy as well as delay the age of first sexual intercourse.

Exactly. I think opening the lines of communication as well as providing additional resources for kids is a great idea.

Originally posted by fly so high!

When my kids are around the "that age" (is 14 too young to start doing this???)

Unfortunately, I think that's the right age. Hell, there are kids out there who are even younger thinking about this kind of stuff.

It's scary.

 

[nbcrusader]

Unfortunately, I think that's the right age. Hell, there are kids out there who are even younger thinking about this kind of stuff.

It's scary.

Which is exactly why parents need to continue to be parents, and not abdicate their role in favor of becoming their child's friend.

As soon as a parent get the idea that "they are going to do it anyway" - they've lost the position of authority over their children.

This is not the easiest postion to offer because it takes a HUGE amount of effort and needs to start at a young age. Personally, I want to stay involved in my children's lives to a degree that they are willing and able to tell me anything that is happening in their lives.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Personally, I want to stay involved in my children's lives to a degree that they are willing and able to tell me anything that is happening in their lives.

That's so admirable and the ideal, but as we all know so many kids don't have that. So in the absence of that, they need to be protected-but also have their psyches protected by some other influence in their lives who can counsel them about respecting themsleves and respecting sexuality. As the other article suggests, so many kids still don't even respect themselves enough that they will have unwanted sex so that a boy doesn't "get angry". I think that is so sad, and indicates that we all have to step up and be there for kids if we can be. Many kids are so emotionally starved and lonely that they equate sex with the love and self acceptance/esteem that they are desperately longing for, and sometimes it's from parents who aren't there for them.

 

[Irvine511]

Which is exactly why parents need to continue to be parents, and not abdicate their role in favor of becoming their child's friend.

As soon as a parent get the idea that "they are going to do it anyway" - they've lost the position of authority over their children.

This is not the easiest postion to offer because it takes a HUGE amount of effort and needs to start at a young age. Personally, I want to stay involved in my children's lives to a degree that they are willing and able to tell me anything that is happening in their lives.

i agree that "they're going to do it anyway" is an abdication of responsibility, but i think many parents take the view that, "my child is ultimately going to make his/her own decisions," therefore the job of the parent is to equip the teenager with enough information and judgement to make a good decision.

i think the parent/child relationship shifts dramatically when a child is about 12 or 13, and many teens, as part of the growth process, make conscious efforts to shut their parents out of certain aspects of their lives. i always got along fairly well with my parents, and there were some aspects of my life where i was 100% open and honest with them, and other areas where i was not. looking back, i think this was part of forging my own identity and defining myself not just apart from my parents but also in opposition to them.

i would never, ever have actively involved my parents in a decision over whether or not to have sex, and i honestly can't think of a single teenager who would. i would, however, take whatever values my parents had instilled in me up to that point and use those as part of the decision making process.

 

[fly so high!]

Wouldn't talking to them about sex (and the physical, emotional, relational aspects) be more effective than a book and a "bowl full of condoms"?

Maybe,maybe not ............but what if they don't WANT to talk. I was a healthy, attractive teenager and my parents tried to TALK to me about sex........but i did not want to talk to them about it.......and i had great family networks,lots and lots of very supportive people in our lives, including cousins that offered their support and a very liberated grandma who was part of the women's movement in the 50-60's......but i still did not want to talk to them about sex.

Instead my mother found out i was having sex by finding me curled up in my bedroom sobbing.........why, i thought i had an STD!!!!! My mother admits now, that this was the most terrifying time in her life.Even though mum went trough all the ?'s like, did you have protected sex(and i did, my BF did wear a condom) but she knew something was up because i did not feel /look well,....she took me to the Doctor's, turned out i had nothing but a terrible,terrible bad case of thrush from being on anti-biotics a few weeks before, mind you my "first-time" was something like 2 months .

I was 15 and 9 months.

 

[nbcrusader]

Instead my mother found out i was having sex by finding me curled up in my bedroom sobbing.........why, i thought i had an STD!!!!! My mother admits now, that this was the most terrifying time in her life.Even though mum went trough all the ?'s like, did you have protected sex(and i did, my BF did wear a condom) but she knew something was up because i did not feel /look well,....she took me to the Doctor's, turned out i had nothing but a terrible,terrible bad case of thrush from being on anti-biotics a few weeks before, mind you my "first-time" was something like 2 months .

I was 15 and 9 months.

Thank you for sharing such a personal experience. It must have been quite freightening at that age.

Looking back at this experience, would you have done anything differently? Would you want to talk more with your parents? Were there things you wished your parents asked of offered before this experience?

 

[fly so high!]

Thank you for sharing such a personal experience. It must have been quite freightening at that age.

Looking back at this experience, would you have done anything differently? Would you want to talk more with your parents? Were there things you wished your parents asked of offered before this experience?

Your welcome. And yes, it was a very frightening time in my life and i lived with that horrible feeling emotionly and physically (bad case of thrush REALLY HURTS!) for 2 weeks before i said anything to my mother.

looking back on the experience now............i would have liked to have some resources at hand.....(i read alot, always did!).......and if i did know how my mother would take it(or my dad for that matter) i would have talked more to them about it..........but you just would not know these things.......like any other teenager, you are just finding your way/place in the world, no matter how liberated or way cool your parents are.

 

[maycocksean]

I hate it when Christians use fear and ignorance as an "easy" way to get their peers to "toe the line" morally.

I depart from most of my fellow Christian conservatives in opposing sex education and the availablity of condoms, particularly in the public schools. I do believe in abstinence until marriage, I do believe that it can be achieved, and I also believe that will be many who choose, for various reasons, to disregard the "standards" of the church and engage in sexual intercourse before marriage. Hiding the truth about the protection condoms afford is not going to change any of that.

To me, if you believe that kids are gonna go out and have crazy sex as soon as they are informed that a condom reduces the liklihood of getting a STD or pregancy than you've got a much bigger problem on your hands. Obviously you've totally failed to transmitt your values about sexuality, and you darn well better provide the condoms because the clearly whatever you've tried to teach hasn't worked at all.

For my kids, I'm going to do my best to teach them what I believe about sex and it's appropriate place in their lives. I will teach them ALL the facts about sex including the various methods of birth control. I won't provide a "bowl of condoms" for them because for me, that would create the impression that I "expect" them to abandon the values that I've tried to teach them. However, they'll know the facts they need to be safe should they make the "wrong" decision. They'll have enough spending money to buy whatever's needed should they decide to go against what I've taught.

And should I "find out" I won't kick them out of my house or anything. Just encourage them to really think about what they're doing, and reconsider what I've taught them, and hope and pray for the best. That's what my grandma did for me when she thought I was sleeping with a friend of mine (long story) and I've always respected it.
I also agree that kids are never going to "discuss with their parents whether to have sex or not." And requiring parental consent for condom use is basically ensuring that kids will just have unprotected sex.

 

[Angela Harlem]

I absolutely fail to understand the view that a parent has this totalitarian authority over their children. It comes, I suppose, from hearing too often, from conservative viewpoints that the parents' morals set and all that can be easily (or naturally will be) passed onto the teen with good parenting. That to do otherwise is a failure. It is neither a failure of the parent when it does not happen, and it is also not so naturally or easily simply ingrained in the child. Teen, in this situation.

I wonder if those who are saying all this will accept willingly that it is failure as a parent on their behalf if their child has sex during their teen years.

I wonder, do they view it as an actual failure if their child simply has sex?

Is it a failure if the child/teen decides they are ready and willing and therefore engage in safe and consentual sex?

It's offensive to continue reading how having an alternate view is a failure.

And I hate to be pointing out the bleeding obvious, but the 'bowl of condoms' line is not to be taken absolutely literally. Sheesh. Well, maybe it is, but I highly doubt fly so high! meant it as anything but a figure of speech.

 

[fly so high!]

And I hate to be pointing out the bleeding obvious, but the 'bowl of condoms' line is not to be taken absolutely literally. Sheesh. Well, maybe it is, but I highly doubt fly so high! meant it as anything but a figure of speech.

No Angela, i really did mean "a bowl of condoms". Thanks anyway.

 

[beegee]

......but what if they don't WANT to talk.

then you've already lost control of your teen.

 

[fly so high!]

I hate it when Christians use fear and ignorance as an "easy" way to get their peers to "toe the line" morally.

I depart from most of my fellow Christian conservatives in opposing sex education and the availablity of condoms, particularly in the public schools. I do believe in abstinence until marriage, I do believe that it can be achieved, and I also believe that will be many who choose, for various reasons, to disregard the "standards" of the church and engage in sexual intercourse before marriage. Hiding the truth about the protection condoms afford is not going to change any of that.

To me, if you believe that kids are gonna go out and have crazy sex as soon as they are informed that a condom reduces the liklihood of getting a STD or pregancy than you've got a much bigger problem on your hands. Obviously you've totally failed to transmitt your values about sexuality, and you darn well better provide the condoms because the clearly whatever you've tried to teach hasn't worked at all.

For my kids, I'm going to do my best to teach them what I believe about sex and it's appropriate place in their lives. I will teach them ALL the facts about sex including the various methods of birth control. I won't provide a "bowl of condoms" for them because for me, that would create the impression that I "expect" them to abandon the values that I've tried to teach them. However, they'll know the facts they need to be safe should they make the "wrong" decision. They'll have enough spending money to buy whatever's needed should they decide to go against what I've taught.

And should I "find out" I won't kick them out of my house or anything. Just encourage them to really think about what they're doing, and reconsider what I've taught them, and hope and pray for the best. That's what my grandma did for me when she thought I was sleeping with a friend of mine (long story) and I've always respected it.
I also agree that kids are never going to "discuss with their parents whether to have sex or not." And requiring parental consent for condom use is basically ensuring that kids will just have unprotected sex.

I laughed out loud when you said you depart from your fellow Christian conservatives,how much bloody more of a conservative veiwpoint could you possibly have............................ I'm Liberal......so carry on your banter as it falls on deaf ears like mine falls on yours!

 

[fly so high!]

then you've already lost control of your teen.

I would like to think i never will nor want to have control over my kids, i must admit at the moment i control what they eat,what they watch,what they wear (although my 6 year old can be very trying with this one ) where they sleep, where they go to school and who can look after them, who they play with (outside of school), but, i know, one day i won't have control over these things, and i think it's terribly naive to think that you could, especially with a teenager......but shit what would i know.........I've yet to experience this actually for myself, and i'm not wishing for it to come up fast either. i know it's going to be hard experience for me, but it's going to be even a harder one for them.

 

[beegee]

I would like to think i never will nor want to have control over my kids, i must admit at the moment i control what they eat,what they watch,what they wear (although my 6 year old can be very trying with this one ) where they sleep, where they go to school and who can look after them, who they play with (outside of school), but, i know, one day i won't have control over these things, and i think it's terribly naive to think that you could, especially with a teenager..

you think it's "terribly naive" to think you can control what your teen eats, what they watch, who they hang out with, etc?

 

[fly so high!]

^ Yes.

 

[beegee]

^ Yes.

lol, ok, fair enough.

there's not much i can say to that then, except, good luck.

 

[nbcrusader]

you think it's "terribly naive" to think you can control what your teen eats, what they watch, who they hang out with, etc?

I'm not sure a parent want to control. But as the primary holders of sage advice in a child's life, maintaining open communication so the child gets advice from the parent (instead of other teens, television, popular culture, etc.) is critical.

 

[fly so high!]

lol, ok, fair enough.

there's not much i can say to that then, except, good luck.

Thanks, along with 5 billion other parents going through the "FBT" stage of their kids lives, i'm sure i will need it
Right now, i am so enjoying the fact that i can control whether my 4 year old can watch the "Boohbahs" and that my 6 year old can wear a Brittney Spears T/Shirt or not!!!!

 

[beegee]

I'm not sure a parent want to control.

when i used the word "control" i expected that i would be understood.

what i'm talking about is that if you don't want your teenager stuffing their faces with junk food, don't buy it. if you don't want your teenager surfing for shit on the internet, filter it. if you don't want your teenager hanging out with that guy down the street who makes pipe bombs, don't let them go to their house. if you don't want your teenager watching films filled with sex and violence, don't rent them.

you CAN control, to an extent, what your teenager does, sees, and experiences.

i know i do. if i didn't, i would have a mess.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

I'm not sure a parent want to control. But as the primary holders of sage advice in a child's life, maintaining open communication so the child gets advice from the parent (instead of other teens, television, popular culture, etc.) is critical.

I think a parent has a much better chance of controlling what a child eats, where they go etc than seeking advice from their parents. In my opinion that's unrealistic. I work with teenagers for a living. Trust me, they're not asking Mom and Dad for advice on a regular basis. Neither did I or my friends for that matter. Frankly, I didn't mind my parents controlling my life as a teen as long as they stayed out of my "business." (which they respectfully did)

 

[Irvine511]

it seems to me, that communication needs to go both ways. the line i've been struck most by is, paraphrased, "i would have talked to my parents if had known how they were going to react."

i think this is a fear that many children have, and i think it's up to parents to make it absolutely clear that no mistake is too great that they cannot come to them. the mistake i think my parents made was that they tried very, very hard to set good examples, to let their opinions be known about drugs and drinking and smoking and who they thought were good roles models in popular culture and who weren't (and to this day, they are thrilled that my teenage roll model was Bono, and that i passed this on to my brother and sister), but the problem was that they did it in what was, to me, so thuddingly obvious, making such a great big obvious point about everything, that i just assumed they were totally naive, so, no, they couldn't possibly understand the complexity of a teen's social life and world since all they seemed to have were well-intentioned platitudes.

communication does seem to be key, but i think a parent owes it to their child to be honest as well -- to understand that things aren't cut-and-dried, that good people do bad things, that bad things happen to good people, and that the most important thing isn't to punish a mistake but to recitfy it.

example: if i ever had a child who was in a situation where they were too intoxicated to drive and didn't feel safe about getting a ride with anyone else, i would hope that i would make it absolutely clear to them that they should absolutely call me, we'll meet at a corner somewhere away from whatever party and i will drive them home and there will be absolutely no punishments nor judgements involved. the important thing is that they get home safe, and not take a risk for fear of angering a parent. i had friends who's parents used to set an alarm clock in the kitchen at the precise hour of their curfew, and if they weren't home to turn the alarm clock off, it would go off, wake everyone in the house, and there would be hell to pay.

had the parent not considered the possibility that the teen might speed home in order to make it at precisely 12:30am? isn't that far, far more dangerous?

but i digress ...

 

[AliEnvy]

i think the parent/child relationship shifts dramatically when a child is about 12 or 13, and many teens, as part of the growth process, make conscious efforts to shut their parents out of certain aspects of their lives. i always got along fairly well with my parents, and there were some aspects of my life where i was 100% open and honest with them, and other areas where i was not. looking back, i think this was part of forging my own identity and defining myself not just apart from my parents but also in opposition to them.

I think this is the most relevant bit when dealing with teens on any issue but especially sex which is almost universally the aspect of their lives that will be absolutely private...regardless of what any parent does or says. Anyone who thinks otherwise, or their child is different, or their relationship is different is deluding themselves.

For some reason when most people become parents they seem to forget to respect a teen's legitimate need to forge independence. This means certain areas of their lives are off limits. Doesn't mean you can't talk about sex and relationships in general to voice your values, experiences and expectations around their intentions and behaviour though. As much as boundaries etc. need to be placed by parents in some areas, they need to be relaxed in others - otherwise teens won't feel trusted and act out even more in defiance.

I truly believe if a teen feels sex is solely their own decision to make without fear of negative parental judgement, interference or consequences, they will almost always make that decision based on the parents values and advice.

 

[maycocksean]

I laughed out loud when you said you depart from your fellow Christian conservatives,how much bloody more of a conservative veiwpoint could you possibly have............................ I'm Liberal......so carry on your banter as it falls on deaf ears like mine falls on yours!

I just reread my post and I think you might have misunderstood me.

I depart from most Christian Conservatives because I SUPPORT sex education courses in public schools and I support providing condoms for teens.

Obviously, I have a conservative views about premarital sex but that does not mean that I think teens should be ignorant of the facts so that they can't make an informed decision.

Your comments do not fall on deaf ears for me. I've found everything you've said so far to be thought-provoking and worth considering. However, I won't continue in the discussion if, indeed, what I say is falling on deaf ears for you. I hope that's not the case though. I hope we'll be able to listen to each other's points of view as well, even though we may disagree strongly.

When we can't talk to each other anymore then we're all really in trouble.

 

[maycocksean]

I absolutely fail to understand the view that a parent has this totalitarian authority over their children. It comes, I suppose, from hearing too often, from conservative viewpoints that the parents' morals set and all that can be easily (or naturally will be) passed onto the teen with good parenting. That to do otherwise is a failure. It is neither a failure of the parent when it does not happen, and it is also not so naturally or easily simply ingrained in the child. Teen, in this situation.

I wonder if those who are saying all this will accept willingly that it is failure as a parent on their behalf if their child has sex during their teen years.

I wonder, do they view it as an actual failure if their child simply has sex?

Is it a failure if the child/teen decides they are ready and willing and therefore engage in safe and consentual sex?

It's offensive to continue reading how having an alternate view is a failure.

And I hate to be pointing out the bleeding obvious, but the 'bowl of condoms' line is not to be taken absolutely literally. Sheesh. Well, maybe it is, but I highly doubt fly so high! meant it as anything but a figure of speech.

You know I'm reading the fiery responses after my last post and I'm thinking I really must have been misunderstood.

So let me try to clarify. I was saying that many Conservative Christians seem to be believe that if they reveal to teens that condoms properly used are an effective means of birth control and that they prevent STDs then those kids will somehow be "encouraged" to have sex. This is why they don't want sex ed and condoms. I DISAGREE with that point of view.

I was NOT implying or suggesting that if a teen has sex that means the parent has failed in their job. It doesn't mean the teen has failed either. I don't see the issue of whether a teen has sex or not has having to do with failure or success at all.

My reference to "parents having failed to do their job" was simply saying: If the only the way parents feel they can get their teenaged children to follow their moral values is to hide the truth from them, then they've obviously done a lousy job of communicating those values.

I say this presuming that it's possible to pass SOMETHING of what you believe on. Obviously at some point your child will choose to accept or reject what you've tried to pass on. And that is their right and their choice to do so.

Am I being any clearer or am I just further muddying the waters?