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Old 06-10-2006, 10:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem

And I hate to be pointing out the bleeding obvious, but the 'bowl of condoms' line is not to be taken absolutely literally. Sheesh. Well, maybe it is, but I highly doubt fly so high! meant it as anything but a figure of speech.
No Angela, i really did mean "a bowl of condoms". Thanks anyway.
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Old 06-10-2006, 10:17 AM   #17
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Originally posted by fly so high!
......but what if they don't WANT to talk.
then you've already lost control of your teen.
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Old 06-10-2006, 10:28 AM   #18
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Originally posted by maycocksean
I hate it when Christians use fear and ignorance as an "easy" way to get their peers to "toe the line" morally.

I depart from most of my fellow Christian conservatives in opposing sex education and the availablity of condoms, particularly in the public schools. I do believe in abstinence until marriage, I do believe that it can be achieved, and I also believe that will be many who choose, for various reasons, to disregard the "standards" of the church and engage in sexual intercourse before marriage. Hiding the truth about the protection condoms afford is not going to change any of that.

To me, if you believe that kids are gonna go out and have crazy sex as soon as they are informed that a condom reduces the liklihood of getting a STD or pregancy than you've got a much bigger problem on your hands. Obviously you've totally failed to transmitt your values about sexuality, and you darn well better provide the condoms because the clearly whatever you've tried to teach hasn't worked at all.

For my kids, I'm going to do my best to teach them what I believe about sex and it's appropriate place in their lives. I will teach them ALL the facts about sex including the various methods of birth control. I won't provide a "bowl of condoms" for them because for me, that would create the impression that I "expect" them to abandon the values that I've tried to teach them. However, they'll know the facts they need to be safe should they make the "wrong" decision. They'll have enough spending money to buy whatever's needed should they decide to go against what I've taught.

And should I "find out" I won't kick them out of my house or anything. Just encourage them to really think about what they're doing, and reconsider what I've taught them, and hope and pray for the best. That's what my grandma did for me when she thought I was sleeping with a friend of mine (long story) and I've always respected it.
I also agree that kids are never going to "discuss with their parents whether to have sex or not." And requiring parental consent for condom use is basically ensuring that kids will just have unprotected sex.
I laughed out loud when you said you depart from your fellow Christian conservatives,how much bloody more of a conservative veiwpoint could you possibly have............................ I'm Liberal......so carry on your banter as it falls on deaf ears like mine falls on yours!
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Old 06-10-2006, 10:42 AM   #19
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then you've already lost control of your teen.
I would like to think i never will nor want to have control over my kids, i must admit at the moment i control what they eat,what they watch,what they wear (although my 6 year old can be very trying with this one ) where they sleep, where they go to school and who can look after them, who they play with (outside of school), but, i know, one day i won't have control over these things, and i think it's terribly naive to think that you could, especially with a teenager......but shit what would i know.........I've yet to experience this actually for myself, and i'm not wishing for it to come up fast either. i know it's going to be hard experience for me, but it's going to be even a harder one for them.
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Old 06-10-2006, 10:52 AM   #20
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Originally posted by fly so high!


I would like to think i never will nor want to have control over my kids, i must admit at the moment i control what they eat,what they watch,what they wear (although my 6 year old can be very trying with this one ) where they sleep, where they go to school and who can look after them, who they play with (outside of school), but, i know, one day i won't have control over these things, and i think it's terribly naive to think that you could, especially with a teenager..
you think it's "terribly naive" to think you can control what your teen eats, what they watch, who they hang out with, etc?
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Old 06-10-2006, 11:03 AM   #21
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^ Yes.
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Old 06-10-2006, 11:10 AM   #22
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Originally posted by fly so high!
^ Yes.
lol, ok, fair enough.

there's not much i can say to that then, except, good luck.
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Old 06-10-2006, 11:10 AM   #23
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Originally posted by bonosgirl84
you think it's "terribly naive" to think you can control what your teen eats, what they watch, who they hang out with, etc?
I'm not sure a parent want to control. But as the primary holders of sage advice in a child's life, maintaining open communication so the child gets advice from the parent (instead of other teens, television, popular culture, etc.) is critical.
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Old 06-10-2006, 11:22 AM   #24
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Originally posted by bonosgirl84


lol, ok, fair enough.

there's not much i can say to that then, except, good luck.
Thanks, along with 5 billion other parents going through the "FBT" stage of their kids lives, i'm sure i will need it
Right now, i am so enjoying the fact that i can control whether my 4 year old can watch the "Boohbahs" and that my 6 year old can wear a Brittney Spears T/Shirt or not!!!!
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Old 06-10-2006, 12:01 PM   #25
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I'm not sure a parent want to control.
when i used the word "control" i expected that i would be understood.

what i'm talking about is that if you don't want your teenager stuffing their faces with junk food, don't buy it. if you don't want your teenager surfing for shit on the internet, filter it. if you don't want your teenager hanging out with that guy down the street who makes pipe bombs, don't let them go to their house. if you don't want your teenager watching films filled with sex and violence, don't rent them.

you CAN control, to an extent, what your teenager does, sees, and experiences.

i know i do. if i didn't, i would have a mess.
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Old 06-10-2006, 12:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I'm not sure a parent want to control. But as the primary holders of sage advice in a child's life, maintaining open communication so the child gets advice from the parent (instead of other teens, television, popular culture, etc.) is critical.
I think a parent has a much better chance of controlling what a child eats, where they go etc than seeking advice from their parents. In my opinion that's unrealistic. I work with teenagers for a living. Trust me, they're not asking Mom and Dad for advice on a regular basis. Neither did I or my friends for that matter. Frankly, I didn't mind my parents controlling my life as a teen as long as they stayed out of my "business." (which they respectfully did)
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Old 06-10-2006, 01:05 PM   #27
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it seems to me, that communication needs to go both ways. the line i've been struck most by is, paraphrased, "i would have talked to my parents if had known how they were going to react."

i think this is a fear that many children have, and i think it's up to parents to make it absolutely clear that no mistake is too great that they cannot come to them. the mistake i think my parents made was that they tried very, very hard to set good examples, to let their opinions be known about drugs and drinking and smoking and who they thought were good roles models in popular culture and who weren't (and to this day, they are thrilled that my teenage roll model was Bono, and that i passed this on to my brother and sister), but the problem was that they did it in what was, to me, so thuddingly obvious, making such a great big obvious point about everything, that i just assumed they were totally naive, so, no, they couldn't possibly understand the complexity of a teen's social life and world since all they seemed to have were well-intentioned platitudes.

communication does seem to be key, but i think a parent owes it to their child to be honest as well -- to understand that things aren't cut-and-dried, that good people do bad things, that bad things happen to good people, and that the most important thing isn't to punish a mistake but to recitfy it.

example: if i ever had a child who was in a situation where they were too intoxicated to drive and didn't feel safe about getting a ride with anyone else, i would hope that i would make it absolutely clear to them that they should absolutely call me, we'll meet at a corner somewhere away from whatever party and i will drive them home and there will be absolutely no punishments nor judgements involved. the important thing is that they get home safe, and not take a risk for fear of angering a parent. i had friends who's parents used to set an alarm clock in the kitchen at the precise hour of their curfew, and if they weren't home to turn the alarm clock off, it would go off, wake everyone in the house, and there would be hell to pay.

had the parent not considered the possibility that the teen might speed home in order to make it at precisely 12:30am? isn't that far, far more dangerous?

but i digress ...
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Old 06-10-2006, 04:19 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i think the parent/child relationship shifts dramatically when a child is about 12 or 13, and many teens, as part of the growth process, make conscious efforts to shut their parents out of certain aspects of their lives. i always got along fairly well with my parents, and there were some aspects of my life where i was 100% open and honest with them, and other areas where i was not. looking back, i think this was part of forging my own identity and defining myself not just apart from my parents but also in opposition to them.
I think this is the most relevant bit when dealing with teens on any issue but especially sex which is almost universally the aspect of their lives that will be absolutely private...regardless of what any parent does or says. Anyone who thinks otherwise, or their child is different, or their relationship is different is deluding themselves.

For some reason when most people become parents they seem to forget to respect a teen's legitimate need to forge independence. This means certain areas of their lives are off limits. Doesn't mean you can't talk about sex and relationships in general to voice your values, experiences and expectations around their intentions and behaviour though. As much as boundaries etc. need to be placed by parents in some areas, they need to be relaxed in others - otherwise teens won't feel trusted and act out even more in defiance.

I truly believe if a teen feels sex is solely their own decision to make without fear of negative parental judgement, interference or consequences, they will almost always make that decision based on the parents values and advice.
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Old 06-11-2006, 09:01 AM   #29
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Originally posted by fly so high!


I laughed out loud when you said you depart from your fellow Christian conservatives,how much bloody more of a conservative veiwpoint could you possibly have............................ I'm Liberal......so carry on your banter as it falls on deaf ears like mine falls on yours!
I just reread my post and I think you might have misunderstood me.

I depart from most Christian Conservatives because I SUPPORT sex education courses in public schools and I support providing condoms for teens.

Obviously, I have a conservative views about premarital sex but that does not mean that I think teens should be ignorant of the facts so that they can't make an informed decision.

Your comments do not fall on deaf ears for me. I've found everything you've said so far to be thought-provoking and worth considering. However, I won't continue in the discussion if, indeed, what I say is falling on deaf ears for you. I hope that's not the case though. I hope we'll be able to listen to each other's points of view as well, even though we may disagree strongly.

When we can't talk to each other anymore then we're all really in trouble.
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Old 06-11-2006, 09:17 AM   #30
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I absolutely fail to understand the view that a parent has this totalitarian authority over their children. It comes, I suppose, from hearing too often, from conservative viewpoints that the parents' morals set and all that can be easily (or naturally will be) passed onto the teen with good parenting. That to do otherwise is a failure. It is neither a failure of the parent when it does not happen, and it is also not so naturally or easily simply ingrained in the child. Teen, in this situation.

I wonder if those who are saying all this will accept willingly that it is failure as a parent on their behalf if their child has sex during their teen years.

I wonder, do they view it as an actual failure if their child simply has sex?

Is it a failure if the child/teen decides they are ready and willing and therefore engage in safe and consentual sex?

It's offensive to continue reading how having an alternate view is a failure.

And I hate to be pointing out the bleeding obvious, but the 'bowl of condoms' line is not to be taken absolutely literally. Sheesh. Well, maybe it is, but I highly doubt fly so high! meant it as anything but a figure of speech.
You know I'm reading the fiery responses after my last post and I'm thinking I really must have been misunderstood.

So let me try to clarify. I was saying that many Conservative Christians seem to be believe that if they reveal to teens that condoms properly used are an effective means of birth control and that they prevent STDs then those kids will somehow be "encouraged" to have sex. This is why they don't want sex ed and condoms. I DISAGREE with that point of view.

I was NOT implying or suggesting that if a teen has sex that means the parent has failed in their job. It doesn't mean the teen has failed either. I don't see the issue of whether a teen has sex or not has having to do with failure or success at all.

My reference to "parents having failed to do their job" was simply saying: If the only the way parents feel they can get their teenaged children to follow their moral values is to hide the truth from them, then they've obviously done a lousy job of communicating those values.

I say this presuming that it's possible to pass SOMETHING of what you believe on. Obviously at some point your child will choose to accept or reject what you've tried to pass on. And that is their right and their choice to do so.

Am I being any clearer or am I just further muddying the waters?
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