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Old 02-23-2006, 12:43 PM   #31
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I guess this touches on the topic discussed in another thread - is "outing" a matter for the individual, or another group?


i think this misses the issue -- Johnny has outed himself in every way but in name itself. i think he still can't say, "yes, obviously i'm gay" because there will still be significant costs to that, both in the possibility of endorsements and in scores received by judges.

i don't think johnny really has a choice here.
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Old 02-23-2006, 12:47 PM   #32
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i think this misses the issue -- Johnny has outed himself in every way but in name itself.
I think I missed the actions that would be considered "outing".
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Old 02-23-2006, 12:53 PM   #33
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I think I missed the actions that would be considered "outing".


just read the article Mrs. S. posted.

why is everyone asking about his sexuality?

why is Rudy Galindo, the only "out" US figure skater, asking reporters to ask him about his sexuality?

why does he say he's dating a wonderful "someone"?



this is a fairly obvious example of how one "says" that they're gay without coming out and actually saying that they're gay. i remember when i was in the process of coming out, i didn't want to be "obvious," but i wanted to let other gay men know that i might be available, so i was obsessed with finding "gay shoes" -- shoes that are popular with gay men, but might not be obviously gay to the casual observer, yet any gay person would read those shoes and know that someone is trying to send out a message. this is where we get into Queer Theory and Queer Readings of literature -- and the point i think i'm trying to make is that now, post-Queer Eye, everything that has been written about and said by Johnny is fairly easy to understand as "gay" -- yet he's not allowed to say the word, still.
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Old 02-23-2006, 01:01 PM   #34
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I don't know if it's real but the MySpace profile that purports to be Johnny's says he is bisexual. I don't think many of the celeb ones are real so I would be skeptical of that.

Yes athletes do still have to be "closeted" because of endorsements and some elements of public opinion. More so in the traditional sports but even in figure skating. I'd hate to think judging would be affected in any way, maybe subconsciously or if the judges were actually bigoted in that way.

Is it that he's not allowed to say the word or is he being intentionally vague because he truly doesn't believe it's anyone's business? Maybe a combination of both, I don't know.
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Old 02-23-2006, 01:28 PM   #35
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Rudy came out a long time ago, before he won Nationals. There was a great deal of speculation that that might have hurt him with the judges, which was really dumb, but it was just like ISU judges, of whom I don't have a high opinion. They finally let up, and when he turned in a flawless performance and Todd messed up, they had to give it to him.
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Old 02-23-2006, 03:55 PM   #36
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Originally posted by Irvine511
this is a fairly obvious example of how one "says" that they're gay without coming out and actually saying that they're gay. i remember when i was in the process of coming out, i didn't want to be "obvious," but i wanted to let other gay men know that i might be available, so i was obsessed with finding "gay shoes" -- shoes that are popular with gay men, but might not be obviously gay to the casual observer, yet any gay person would read those shoes and know that someone is trying to send out a message. this is where we get into Queer Theory and Queer Readings of literature -- and the point i think i'm trying to make is that now, post-Queer Eye, everything that has been written about and said by Johnny is fairly easy to understand as "gay" -- yet he's not allowed to say the word, still.
This creates somewhat of a dilema when the "outing" activity can otherwise be labeled a behavioral "stereotype" - something I would think should be avoided. I need to think some more about this.
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Old 02-23-2006, 04:05 PM   #37
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


This creates somewhat of a dilema when the "outing" activity can otherwise be labeled a behavioral "stereotype" - something I would think should be avoided. I need to think some more about this.


very interesting.

it seems that how the inability for someone to come "out" without suffering consequences leads them to perform stereotypical behavior in order to be read as gay -- perhaps akin to hip-hop artist having to prove something, generally to white suburban kids, about "street cred" -- which ultilmately reinforces existing stereotypes.

had never thought about that before.

it's as if there needs to be someone so beloved, so "acceptable" to a mainstream audience to come out in whatever field or profession in order to open doors for others.

yet, you'd probably get grief from elements in the gay community for being a "sellout" -- you've heard of an Uncle Tom? in gay circles, you'd call someone an "Auntie Tom."

interesting how these templates replicate themselves within different groups of certain minority status.

you're right, lots to think about.
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Old 02-27-2006, 10:16 AM   #38
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NG5RHDJ491.DTL

"The Chicago Tribune even queried former Olympic skater Rudy Galindo, who is gay, about Weir's orientation, with Tribune writer David Haugh noting that "Galindo still wishes somebody in the media would be brazen enough to simply ask Weir" about it.

Galindo was quoted as saying, in part, "Why is everybody asking him about his 'style' and not just ask him if he's gay?"

To Rudy, I say thank you. I couldn't agree with you more.

And to writer Haugh and his use of the term "brazen," I ask: Why is it brazen to ask whether someone is lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender when we, as journalists, exercise far more abandon when covering the personal endeavors of countless heterosexual boldface names? Last fall, journalist Mubarak Dahir, writing for the Empty Closet Web site, penned a succinct, important piece on the contentious issue of outing.

In discussing its history, Dahir wrote, "Traditionally, outing was used by anti-gay people as a means to ruin a gay person's life. The revelation that someone was homosexual was so horrible, it meant their demise. Today, representatives of 'mainstream' media most frequently do not ask whether or not someone is gay because it is 'personal.' Another often-repeated line is that sexual orientation is 'irrelevant.'

"... By refusing to simply ask whether or not someone is gay perpetuates the notion that answering affirmatively is the ultimate shame," Dahir concluded. "

..As journalists, it is our job to ask questions in the first place. And when we have all of the necessary, relevant information, it is our job to tell, as fairly and accurately as possible. Reporting on sexual orientation and gender identity -- perceived or otherwise, whether in life or postmortem -- should be included and dealt with the same way we approach subjects for such basic information as whether they are married, divorced, single or dating. This is an important part of providing a full measure of an individual's life, one we should stop avoiding.

Journalists must be prepared and willing to raise questions, no matter how difficult they may seem. We hold that responsibility -- even if we think the subject will be cagey or ultimately dismissive in response. And that includes simply asking, without shame or judgment, "Are you gay?"

Eric Hegedus is national president of the 1,300-member National Lesbian & Gay Journalists Association
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:36 AM   #39
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What about NBC not mentioning it? Not showing his family and partner when they show the others? He was great, one of the best performances I've seen in these Olympics.



Saturday, Aug 23, 2008 5:02 pm EDT

Openly gay diver wins gold

By Maggie Hendricks

Diver Matthew Mitcham, the only openly gay male athlete in the Beijing Olympics, won gold in the 10m platform. He beat Chinese favorite Zhou Luxin by 4.8 points, preventing China from sweeping gold in diving events. Mitcham is the first Aussie to win diving gold since 1924, but that's not the only thing that makes him a trailblazer.

He is hardly the first gay athlete to compete but he is one of the first to be out while competing. American diver Greg Louganis did not share his orientation until his diving career was over. To Mitcham, he is just living his life as a gay man and as a diver, and there is nothing extraordinary about that:

“Being gay and diving are completely separate parts of my life. Of course there’s going to be crossover because some people have issues, but everyone I dive with has been so supportive."

Though he wants to be known as more than a gay man, the LGBT community is proud of their star. At OutSports, a sports Web site that focuses on the gay community, his win is front-page news. The Web site brings up a good question -- will NBC mention Mitcham's orientation during tonight's broadcast?

To Mitcham, that doesn't seem to matter. He has gold, and has reached his goals: "I’m happy with myself and where I am. I’m very happy with who I am and what I’ve done.”

UPDATE: NBC did not mention Mitcham's orientation, nor did they show his family and partner who were in the stands. NBC has made athletes' significant others a part of the coverage in the past, choosing to spotlight track athlete Sanya Richards' fiancee, a love triangle between French and Italian swimmers and Kerri Walsh's wedding ring debacle.

http://outsports.com/olympics2008/20...ams-sexuality/
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:53 AM   #40
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Thank god football season starts next week.
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:37 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
What about NBC not mentioning it? Not showing his family and partner when they show the others? He was great, one of the best performances I've seen in these Olympics.



Saturday, Aug 23, 2008 5:02 pm EDT

Openly gay diver wins gold

By Maggie Hendricks

Diver Matthew Mitcham, the only openly gay male athlete in the Beijing Olympics, won gold in the 10m platform. He beat Chinese favorite Zhou Luxin by 4.8 points, preventing China from sweeping gold in diving events. Mitcham is the first Aussie to win diving gold since 1924, but that's not the only thing that makes him a trailblazer.

He is hardly the first gay athlete to compete but he is one of the first to be out while competing. American diver Greg Louganis did not share his orientation until his diving career was over. To Mitcham, he is just living his life as a gay man and as a diver, and there is nothing extraordinary about that:

“Being gay and diving are completely separate parts of my life. Of course there’s going to be crossover because some people have issues, but everyone I dive with has been so supportive."

Though he wants to be known as more than a gay man, the LGBT community is proud of their star. At OutSports, a sports Web site that focuses on the gay community, his win is front-page news. The Web site brings up a good question -- will NBC mention Mitcham's orientation during tonight's broadcast?

To Mitcham, that doesn't seem to matter. He has gold, and has reached his goals: "I’m happy with myself and where I am. I’m very happy with who I am and what I’ve done.”

UPDATE: NBC did not mention Mitcham's orientation, nor did they show his family and partner who were in the stands. NBC has made athletes' significant others a part of the coverage in the past, choosing to spotlight track athlete Sanya Richards' fiancee, a love triangle between French and Italian swimmers and Kerri Walsh's wedding ring debacle.

http://outsports.com/olympics2008/20...ams-sexuality/
really great performance last night (televised last night, anyway) - good for him.
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:45 AM   #42
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Thank god football season starts next week.

No gay football players?
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:55 AM   #43
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I don't know, I don't think anyhting should be made of him being openly gay when they speak about him. His sexual preferences didn't get him to where he is, and i don't think being gay is a hinderence that needs to be trotted out like 'oooh lookie a gay actually did something non gay like sport!'
We don't say 'ooh there is michael phelps, he is openly hetro, there are some sexy girls he might try to bang later...'
I just think being gay shouldn't be part of a person. Like Johnny Weir, why does he have to come out? Its no ones business but his own.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:09 AM   #44
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I don't know, I don't think anyhting should be made of him being openly gay when they speak about him. His sexual preferences didn't get him to where he is

I agree with that, but I also think it's a double standard to not show or mention his partner when they show and mention heterosexual partners/boyfriends/girlfriends (their orientation didn't get them to where they are either). Since he is openly gay it makes it appear as if NBC is trying to hide it somehow.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:21 AM   #45
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We don't say 'ooh there is michael phelps, he is openly hetro, there are some sexy girls he might try to bang later...'


like Stephanie Rice?
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