Old Testament VS New Testament

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Dreadsox

ONE love, blood, life
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Here is my question.......

Is GOD the same GOD of the old testament and the new testament?

If it is the same God, how do you justify the portrayal of the Old Testament God verses the New Testament God?

If you feel GOD changed and is not the same in the New Testament as the Old Testament, how do you explain this transformation?

Please....I am interested in opinions and I realize it can get a little touchy talking about things like this. I am really curious about this topic because my view of the old testament is changing studying it now 12 years since I last took a religion class.

Thanks
 
It's the same God. It's God — he's everlasting and never changes. Actually, did you know Christ talks more about judgement in the New Testament than you'll find anywhere in the Old Testament?

If you want to focus on differences in the OT verses the NT, the OT focuses on God's law, while the NT focuses on God's grace, or Jesus Christ, who is the fullfillment of the OT law. God's love, holiness and power are evident throughout the entire Bible though.
 
If we can take a minute to step back from our preconceptions, I think the Old Testament will make a lot more sense. Image having no formal education - you know nothing about science. You are wandering around the desert. You have food today, God must be pleased with you. You don't have food and enemies have attacked you, God must be angry at you.
I think the nomadic tribes of Judah had a very small conception of God. For instance, for a long time they just believed their God was one of many.
 
I do think it is the same God, but I think that God changed. God became more compassionate. God was on a continual journey to love. God started learning even as early as the story of Noah. God wiped out all of the sinning people on earth, but then promised to never do it again.

In the Old Testament - God frequently punished those that didn't follow. I hate that God CHANGED the Pharoh's mind to not listen to the warnings that Moses gave him, when the Pharoh would have listened in fear.

I read a lot of the Old Testament for a class I joined at Church 2 years ago called "Biblestraighthroo". I stopped reading it after awhile as I could not understand God at all. I still attend the classes because I love listening to my Pastor's theology on it all. I get the abbreviated version by taking the classes. We are getting close to the New Testament and I am going to attempt to keep up for the rest. :)
 
Technically according to the Bible, God cannot change! We're not talking about a person who can undergo surgery of the heart...God is um, kinda different.
 
God has revealed Himself through both the Old and New Testament. Considering the degree of cross references from New to Old, the idea that there are different Gods essentially leads to a breakdown of the Bible.

The attributes of God do not change and can be found in both Old and New Testament. If you search through all Old and New Testament, the portrayals match. The jealous, judgmental, righteous and holy attributes of God are supported in both Testaments.

And, the way to relate to God has always been through faith. Abraham believed, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6. The Old Testament is full of examples of God reaching out to those who believe or His desire for people to return to Him.



I will discuss this further with my wife tonight and provide an additional substantive response for you.
 
coemgen said:
the OT focuses on God's law, while the NT focuses on God's grace

I think this is essentially the core of the misunderstanding between Old and New Testament. Instead of looking at all of the books in both Testaments, we compare summaries or focuses.

In that instance, we may come to conclusions of differences or the idea that God changed.

God is immutable. He does not change. And that is a good thing because then we can fully rely on His promises.


ps. coemgen, I quoted your statement to make my point, not to single your comment out for any reason.
 
I have a question. If God is perfect in every way as many believers feel....how come He changes through time and how come He makes mistakes or does things that He feels badly for later ( like the flooding of the Earth)
 
The Old Testament is very interesting, it's God's covenant with the Jews. God gave them a set of laws to follow which were obviously different from the New Testament in a lot of ways. When Jesus came, he wasn't trusted by everyone because he healed a woman on the Sabbath, among other things. Christians believe that Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of a savior that was promised to the Jews. The Jews were overwhelmed because Jesus was not what they expected. He was socializing with prostitutes and gentiles, which was against their society's customs.
 
I agree with nb that I don't think God really changed...perhaps just that God chose to reveal the Christlike nature of God at that particular time...? I don't really know what accounts for the shift in focus between the OT and the NT--but as a non-literalist as far as Scripture goes, I think it may be the shifting perspectives of the writers more than anything else. The OT was written by people who did not know Christ and had not yet experienced the radical change He represents; the writers of the NT, on the other hand, knew about Christ and what He represented.

Does that make any sense? I'm no Biblical scholar, but that's what I would say. :shrug:
 
LoveTown said:
I have a question. If God is perfect in every way as many believers feel....how come He changes through time and how come He makes mistakes or does things that He feels badly for later ( like the flooding of the Earth)

Can you give example of God "making a mistake" or "feeling badly" or other "changes"?


Following the flood, God made a covenant that He would not destroy the earth by flood again. The sign of his covenant is the rainbow. He will, however, destroy the earth by fire when He creates the new Heaven and new Earth.
 
I'm not even sure, incidentally, that God is really unchanging. I mean, emotion itself is change, and we believe as Christians that God consoles us when we are sad, rejoices with us when we are happy--that God is grieved when someone sins, that God is pleased when someone does the right thing...obviously these "emotions," if you will, are all different and changing. God could be angry with me when I do something wrong and happy with me when I do something right. So God's feelings about me and how God looks upon me obviously change.
 
LoveTown said:
I have a question. If God is perfect in every way as many believers feel....how come He changes through time and how come He makes mistakes or does things that He feels badly for later ( like the flooding of the Earth)

My personal opinion is that the Flood story in the Bible serves a mythical purpose (myth as in truth revealed, the plot doesn't have to be true, etc). Why? B/c there are older Flood narratives to which whoever wrote the one in the Bible simply added more details and a moral theme.


In general, I don't like to base how I feel about God on an OT vs. NT debate b/c in the end, all we have are assumptions and speculation. I'm not saying we can't have these debates; I find them interesting. However, I don't like it when I hear people saying "Well, I can't believe in your God b/c He did this ------- in the OT" or things like that. If you want a summary of who God is, look no further than Jesus Christ. All you really need to know about God is evident in the Gospels and demonstrated through the actions and teachings of Jesus.

Besides, it's all about context, context, context and the contexts of the OT narratives are far different that the Gospels or the letters in the NT so it's really an apples-and-oranges comparison.
 
paxetaurora said:
God could be angry with me when I do something wrong and happy with me when I do something right. So God's feelings about me and how God looks upon me obviously change.
I'm sure God's been angry with me before, but when I allow him to teach me, he will forgive me.
 
Then again, I suppose I'm missing a shade of meaning here--although God's "feelings" (LOL, what a weird thing to say about God) might change, I guess, God's nature does not--which is what I guess the "unchanging" argument is getting at. The OT God was merciful, too, for example, it's just that God chose to reveal Christ when God did for...whatever reasons. Or the same things always anger God, and the same things always please God. That kind of thing.
 
Macfistowannabe said:
I'm sure God's been angry with me before, but when I allow him to teach me, he will forgive me.

this is getting pretty nit-picky and I'm not totally sure how I feel about this, but one could argue that God doesn't get "angry" so much as He is hurt that someone chose not to do the right thing. I dunno, it just seems like "mad" or "angry" have such negative connotations like one would seek to punish or get revenge.

I'm sure I'm making no sense....
 
blueyedpoet said:
If we can take a minute to step back from our preconceptions, I think the Old Testament will make a lot more sense. Image having no formal education - you know nothing about science. You are wandering around the desert. You have food today, God must be pleased with you. You don't have food and enemies have attacked you, God must be angry at you.
I think the nomadic tribes of Judah had a very small conception of God. For instance, for a long time they just believed their God was one of many.

excellent post, however it appears to have been overlooked. one must look at the "old" testament as an ignorant people writing an embellished history of themselves...in my opinion, if we are to be honest with ourselves.

also, to comment on the whole changing nature of god:

paul describes love to us in 1 corinthians as patient, kind, not envious, not easily angered, and holding no record of wrong. contrast this with YHVH and you are smacked with enormous contradictions leaving several options: god is not love, god changes, or paul offers a flawed albeit divinely inspired description. which shall it be?
 
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paxetaurora said:
Then again, I suppose I'm missing a shade of meaning here--although God's "feelings" (LOL, what a weird thing to say about God) might change, I guess, God's nature does not--which is what I guess the "unchanging" argument is getting at. The OT God was merciful, too, for example, it's just that God chose to reveal Christ when God did for...whatever reasons. Or the same things always anger God, and the same things always please God. That kind of thing.

I think you nailed it here.

God's nature does not change.

Also, we are limited in our understanding of God based on our understanding of ourselves. God is capable of so many things simultaneously, that we cannot comprehend how a "change" of feelings may all occur at the same time.
 
Se7en said:
contrast this with YHVH and you are smacked with enormous contradictions leaving several options: god is not love, god changes, or paul offers a flawed albeit divinely inspired description. which shall it be?

Could you give specific descriptions from Scripture?
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
this is getting pretty nit-picky and I'm not totally sure how I feel about this, but one could argue that God doesn't get "angry" so much as He is hurt that someone chose not to do the right thing. I dunno, it just seems like "mad" or "angry" have such negative connotations like one would seek to punish or get revenge.

I'm sure I'm making no sense....
I can understand how you feel about God and I have nothing against it. However, to sight an example, Jesus was angry quite a few times in the Gospel. It could've been because he was in the form of a man, but for sure God isn't always pleased with humanity. Yet he had the mercy to save us.

I know it doesn't elaborate much, but this link is pretty interesting.
http://members.aol.com/johnodhner/GodsAnger.html
 
From a literary/historical standpoint (which is how we've been studying the Bible this semester), much of the difference has to do with the way the ancient Hebrews were viewing God.

The way I understand it, the Hebrews followed a code of strict monotheism. All good comes from God--and so does all evil. The evil spirit that plagues Saul, for instance, is sent by God. Originally, there was no Satan figure because that was a compromise of monotheism. (Job is one exception, and you'll notice that The Adversary is portrayed as being a member of God's court, not exactly the Satan figure we are familiar with)

However, you can't really reconcile a view like this with your daily life. God is good, but he also sends us evil? Why? How He do this to the faithful? Even more troubling were (and I'll have to look up the verse) the suggestions that the Israelites were set up to fail--God mentions giving them good and bad laws to follow, in order that they might distinguish between them.

After the fall of Israel to Babylon, if you read the prophets there is a real shift in perception. You start to see a move away from the "sins of the father" and into one of individual faith and responsibility. With Jeremiah, God establishes the internal covenant. Depending on your faith, you may or may not have the Apocrypha in your Bible, but this is where we see Satan, angels and demons play more of a part in the Hebrew faith, setting the stage for the New Testament, where we have a dualistic world. There is good, which comes from God, and there is evil, which comes from Satan.

So, I think it's something of both. God Himself didn't change, but he changed the nature of his relationship with the people. But the Hebrews perception changed, because it was just impossible to imagine a God who was responsible for the evil in the world.
 
They do say having children will change you.:wink:

Seriously though...

Like some have touched upon I think it comes down to the perceptions of authors. A lot ot the OT happened before recorded history, a lot were stories just passed on so embellishments occur, and the overall education of humans was limited so explanation of God is limited.

I think it would be very similar to as if someone were to have recorded my explanation of God as a child compared to now.

As a child I would have spoke about how I need to not do this, or do this and God will allow me in heaven. It's a more simplistic fear driven belief, and as an adult that changes to a more complex but loving belief.
 
nbcrusader said:


Can you give example of God "making a mistake" or "feeling badly" or other "changes"?


Following the flood, God made a covenant that He would not destroy the earth by flood again. The sign of his covenant is the rainbow. He will, however, destroy the earth by fire when He creates the new Heaven and new Earth.


ah ok, I understand now I think. See, I'm not well-versed on the Bible at all. I definately believe in God and in Jesus but when it comes to knowing what the Bible says Im rather clueless. I always thought that God felt regret over acting so harshly by flooding the Earth the way He did and that the rainbow was His promise that He would try to be more patient and understanding with His children in the future.
 
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