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Old 12-02-2004, 08:38 AM   #61
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Over the years, I have come to realize that prayer changes me, not God. Thisis what happened to Moses, Abraham and many others who interceded before God on behalf of the people. Their hearts were changed in trusting God.
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Old 12-02-2004, 08:42 AM   #62
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That's really an excellent point, nb. I'm reminded of Anne Lamott's lovely little writing:

"Here are the two best prayers I know: 'Help me, help me, help me' and 'Thank you, thank you, thank you.'"
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Old 12-02-2004, 08:50 AM   #63
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right. which is why i am always surprised when someone offers to pray for someone else. it seems a nice gesture, but really makes the prayer feel better, not the prayed-for. instead of praying for me, talk to me, or help me.

or am i missing something?

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Old 12-02-2004, 08:59 AM   #64
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I've prayed for those who have struggled, and when I see them make it by, I feel that God was listening.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:01 AM   #65
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yes, but it remains all about you, not the person you prayed for.

it's a lovely gesture, but that's about it. seems to me, at least.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:09 AM   #66
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You make an interesting point. I can see how it can say nothing more than "I'm a little concerned" to someone who is not a Christian. As a believer, I find it comforting when I am prayed for.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:16 AM   #67
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okay, that's a fair way of putting it. if you know others are praying for you, and you draw strength from that, that makes sense to me.

thanks.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:21 AM   #68
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Mother Teresa's business card:

The fruit of silence is prayer.
The fruit of prayer is faith.
The fruit of faith is love.
The fruit of love is service.
The fruit of service is peace.


Praying, whether intercessory or personal, affects more than we can imagine.
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Old 12-02-2004, 11:30 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


Like I said in the other thread, please don't base your opinions on God on some OT narrative stories that may never have happened anyway.
trust me, i don't base my opinion of god on ot narratives. i do however base parts of my opinions of judeo-christian religions on them.
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Old 12-02-2004, 11:35 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
Like I said in the other thread, please don't base your opinions on God on some OT narrative stories that may never have happened anyway.


Should some portions be removed because they did not/could not have happened?
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Old 12-02-2004, 11:46 AM   #71
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True theology stopped the moment someone first asked, "But did it really happen?"
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Old 12-02-2004, 11:52 AM   #72
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you'd think we'd be better off then.
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Old 12-02-2004, 01:44 PM   #73
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If I may, for some who believe in the Bible we may look at the story and believe it to mythology or legendary. For others it is a literal truth and it happened the way it says word for word.

Without putting words in LivLuvAndBootlegMusic's mouth, I kind of understand what was said to mean, do not just use what some of us might consider to fall into the mythological category to decide what you believe God to be.

Is it part of the picture? YES! Should we base it soley on this? No.
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Old 12-02-2004, 02:05 PM   #74
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Well, certain parts of the Bible are largely literal, others not so much.

Jeremiah, is probably very close to the words that prophet, as it was written by his friend Baruch a royal scribe. In recent years excavations in Jerusalem (I think) turned up the seal of a royal scribe named Baruch of the apporopriate period. In any case we can be a lot more sure of Jeremiah's words as we know they were written down in his lifetime by smeone who knew him well. Though the last few chapters appear to be later additions.

The book of Kings (1&2 Kings) makes outside references to at least three sources which are now lost. One of these, the Chronicle of the kings of Judah certainly sounds plauseible. In fact the book over and over asks the reader to refer to outside material if they wish to know more as the author makes very plain that his work is not general history.

Daniel is solidly allegorical. It's an apocalypse (revelation) written in the 2nd century during the Maccabean revolt but uses the pseudonym of Daniel to express its eschatological (end times) views. This makes it no less crucial as it assures the reader that God is in command of history and shows the development of eschatological thinking, and is the first book in cannon where the belief in a final resurrection explicitly appears. It is also the source of the Messianic title Son of Man. And while Daniel (with the possible exception of chapter 12) is not prophesy, it has been reinterpreted and used as prophesy by others, most significantly Jesus.
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Old 12-02-2004, 02:30 PM   #75
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Yes, there are a few things in the Bible that aren't meant to be taken literally, like Jesus talking about taking your eye out if it causes you to sin.
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