Okla. Woman Said to Give Birth While Drunk - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-19-2005, 07:53 PM   #61
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by xtal
Alcoholism is not a choice. It's in your blood, it's genetic, it's physiological.
Why don't you read the book "Under The Influence".
Do some studying to back up your illogical views on a disease, that yes, people are born with as a result of nothing the victim ever did.

Let me repeat: Alcoholism is a disease that people are born with. Some recover, some don't. This is not a choice.
Cancer is a disease that some people are born with are or vulnerable because of genetics. Some recover, some don't. This is not a choice.
There is no difference.


gosh, it's so hard to sit in self-righteous, feel-good condemnation when confronted with facts.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 07-19-2005, 07:55 PM   #62
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal


I don't doubt your father up and quit one day, but if that's the case I don't think he was an alcoholic. I know that sounds presumptuous
Believe me, after some of the things I've been accused of, that doesn't sound presumptious to me at all. But yes, my father was an alcoholic, and yes, he did quit. But my father was a man of unfailing faith. He asked God to take the cravings away, and God did. When my dad stopped drinking, he never had another drink or craving. It was nothing short of a miracle, especially since I know that most people have a very difficult time of it.

Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal
Do you believe in alcoholism as a disease, or a choice? It all comes down to that really, and I think you would find it much easier to feel compassion for the woman if you felt it was, in her current state, outside of her control.

I feel it is a disease brought about by choices people make (except in the cases of fetal alcohol syndrome), and as such, people can kick the habit. But first they must choose to so.
I do not believe that it was beyond her control. I believe it may have been extremely difficult, but I do not believe she had no control whatsoever. As I said, when she found out she was pregnant she should have done every thing in her power to get help.

However, I know that my anger at her actions does not have to let it turn into hatred of her as a person. And, because she is deceived by the great tempter named Alcohol, that can be a basis upon which I can start to try to feel compassion for her.
__________________

__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 07:57 PM   #63
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
dandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: styrofoam peanut commune
Posts: 4,310
Local Time: 03:03 PM
ah, the pure, innocent, helpless victim stereotype rears its ugly head once again.
__________________
dandy is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 08:01 PM   #64
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by dandy
ah, the pure, innocent, helpless victim stereotype rears its ugly head once again.
I don't understand.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 08:07 PM   #65
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
VertigoGal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: I'm never alone (I'm alone all the time)
Posts: 9,860
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Believe me, after some of the things I've been accused of, that doesn't sound presumptious to me at all. But yes, my father was an alcoholic, and yes, he did quit. But my father was a man of unfailing faith. He asked God to take the cravings away, and God did. When my dad stopped drinking, he never had another drink or craving. It was nothing short of a miracle, especially since I know that most people have a very difficult time of it.
Did your dad seek any outside help immediately following his decision to quit? I'm still having trouble believing he suffered no physical withdrawal symptoms if he was chemically dependant. I won't doubt faith is a key factor in AA, but if you're trying to tell me that God took away his withdrawal symptoms too, I'm going to have to say I don't believe you.

Frankly, I don't think you believe alcoholism is truly a disease, or that you understand the fundamental aspects of it. It's NOT something that is within the control of the person, accepting lack of control is a key principle in the AA program. It's not something that is very difficult but within the power of the person. An alcoholic, someone who is chemically dependant on alcohol (and as financeguy said, this does not apply to everyone with a drinking problem) cannot quit on their own. Period.
__________________
VertigoGal is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 08:19 PM   #66
War Child
 
xtal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: US
Posts: 834
Local Time: 10:03 AM
Just wondering:

Am I the only alcoholic that has been through rehab in this thread?
__________________
xtal is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 08:20 PM   #67
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal


Did your dad seek any outside help immediately following his decision to quit? I'm still having trouble believing he suffered no physical withdrawal symptoms if he was chemically dependant. I won't doubt faith is a key factor in AA, but if you're trying to tell me that God took away his withdrawal symptoms too, I'm going to have to say I don't believe you.

Frankly, I don't think you believe alcoholism is truly a disease, or that you understand the fundamental aspects of it. It's NOT something that is within the control of the person, accepting lack of control is a key principle in the AA program. It's not something that is very difficult but within the power of the person. An alcoholic, someone who is chemically dependant on alcohol (and as financeguy said, this does not apply to everyone with a drinking problem) cannot quit on their own. Period.
Then I truly don't understand. Does alcoholism mean that a person is addicted to alcohol, or is it more than that? My father was addicted to alcohol. But he did indeed give it up, through God's power.

I come from the belief that God can heal anyone. He doesn't always do so, but he can and I have seen it done. That's why it doesn't seem all that wild an idea to me that God could cure someone of alcoholism.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 08:20 PM   #68
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 07:03 PM
Well I like to drink a fair amount of beer, but can give up for a month or so without any great difficulty so hopefully I am not an alcoholic.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 08:25 PM   #69
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
VertigoGal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: I'm never alone (I'm alone all the time)
Posts: 9,860
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by xtal
Just wondering:

Am I the only alcoholic that has been through rehab in this thread?
Congratulations

My mom went through rehab (that's where I'm getting most of my info), but that's obviously one hell of a lot different than going through it myself. If it's not too personal, I'd love to hear your story.
__________________
VertigoGal is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 08:26 PM   #70
War Child
 
xtal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: US
Posts: 834
Local Time: 10:03 AM
Does anyone know what PAWS is?

You may not know that is a serious underlying withdrawal symptom. Many think of alcoholics as going thru DT's (delirium tremens) is a severe case. But when you're young, like me, and you're trying to quit, you display and suffer some non-serious and often not noticeable withdrawal symptoms. Mostly psychological.
I pick a fight with my mother after weeks of not drinking, and it's when I unconsciously want to drink!
I cry, and argue, and I lose my temper. It's like PMS, but it doesn't go away until I get a drink.
PAWS. Psychological acute withdrawal symptoms.
__________________
xtal is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 08:26 PM   #71
War Child
 
xtal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: US
Posts: 834
Local Time: 10:03 AM
I've been through rehab twice now.
My family has just about given up on me.
This is not easy, and it's certainly not a fucking choice.
__________________
xtal is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 08:28 PM   #72
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
VertigoGal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: I'm never alone (I'm alone all the time)
Posts: 9,860
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by xtal
Does anyone know what PAWS is?

You may not know that is a serious underlying withdrawal symptom. Many think of alcoholics as going thru DT's (delirium tremens) is a severe case. But when you're young, like me, and you're trying to quit, you display and suffer some non-serious and often not noticeable withdrawal symptoms. Mostly psychological.
I pick a fight with my mother after weeks of not drinking, and it's when I unconsciously want to drink!
I cry, and argue, and I lose my temper. It's like PMS, but it doesn't go away until I get a drink.
PAWS. Psychological acute withdrawal symptoms.
yeah, exactly. most people think the alcoholic would be hardest to be around when they're drunk, but I found she was most terrifying when she couldn't get anything, a "dry drunk" you might say.
__________________
VertigoGal is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 10:08 PM   #73
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Rono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 6,163
Local Time: 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Then I truly don't understand. Does alcoholism mean that a person is addicted to alcohol, or is it more than that? My father was addicted to alcohol. But he did indeed give it up, through God's power.

I come from the belief that God can heal anyone. He doesn't always do so, but he can and I have seen it done. That's why it doesn't seem all that wild an idea to me that God could cure someone of alcoholism.
I don`t believe it was only god`s power but also a strong family connection.

maybe this woman has a awfull history, not everone is so lucky to have caring friends and family around to help.
__________________
Rono is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 10:16 PM   #74
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Rono


I don`t believe it was only god`s power but also a strong family connection.

maybe this woman has a awfull history, not everone is so lucky to have caring friends and family around to help.
Good point.

I'm starting to take all these things into consideration.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-20-2005, 03:08 AM   #75
War Child
 
xtal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: US
Posts: 834
Local Time: 10:03 AM
I take it I'm the only alcoholic in here.
I have done a 28 day stay in a rehab where all they do is teach you what it is, who it affects, what causes it and so on. We are forced to read books on this sickness, books by doctors and scientists, some with proven facts, some defying other myths.
So Irvine, I don't quite understand your comment that it's so hard to sit in self-righteous, feel-good condemnation when confronted with facts.
I know the facts because I've done studies on alcoholism, I've read just about every single book on alcoholism out there- not by choice- it was a requirement by my rehab program.
I also am an alcoholic myself.
And I'm not trying to attack anyone that is not alcoholic, but some people don't have a fucken clue what people like me have to go through.
That is SO not being self-righteous!
__________________

__________________
xtal is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com