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Old 07-19-2005, 05:28 PM   #46
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BAW

Most alcoholics/addicts experience deep shame and guilt over the way their addiction hurts the people they love and yet they are often powerless to make lasting changes. "Tough decisions" alone unfortunately do not cure diseases.
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:36 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal


Alcoholics don't "quit." And if your father is an alcoholic, you shouldn't say he *was* an alcoholic. He's in recovery.

I find the whole thing disgusting, and sad above all, but don't you think it's pretty cold of you to say you feel no compassion whatsoever for the woman?
My father DID quit. One day he was a drinker, and the next he stopped and he never did again. If that's not quitting, what is it? One of the reasons I say "was" is because my father passed away in 1993. The other is because when he stopped drinking he was no longer controlled by alcohol.

Why is it cold of me not to feel any compassion for her? She may have brain damaged her child for life. If she had accidentally injured her child, through no fault of her own, I'd feel compassion. Right now I am just so angry at her stupid choices and the consequences of her actions that the thought of "compassion" toward her doesn't even enter my mind.
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:49 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Why is it cold of me not to feel any compassion for her? She may have brain damaged her child for life. If she had accidentally injured her child, through no fault of her own, I'd feel compassion. Right now I am just so angry at her stupid choices and the consequences of her actions that the thought of "compassion" toward her doesn't even enter my mind.


WWJD?
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:50 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


My father DID quit. One day he was a drinker, and the next he stopped and he never did again. If that's not quitting, what is it? One of the reasons I say "was" is because my father passed away in 1993. The other is because when he stopped drinking he was no longer controlled by alcohol.

Why is it cold of me not to feel any compassion for her? She may have brain damaged her child for life. If she had accidentally injured her child, through no fault of her own, I'd feel compassion. Right now I am just so angry at her stupid choices and the consequences of her actions that the thought of "compassion" toward her doesn't even enter my mind.
So because your father quit everyone can? It's great that he just quit but it's simply not the case for everyone any more than just because one person's cancer is cured everyone's will be.

One reason you might consider compassion is because, frankly, it is an important part of the teachings that you follow. I would think that you would at least be open to the idea even if you are not able to actuate it immediately. I certainly do not claim to be able to walk my talk all the time but I would at least like to be able to and can readily acknowledge that it is something to strive for.
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:50 PM   #50
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WWJD?
wow, you said that in a lot fewer letters than I did, lol.
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:55 PM   #51
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Originally posted by Irvine511
WWJD?
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:34 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


So because your father quit everyone can? It's great that he just quit but it's simply not the case for everyone any more than just because one person's cancer is cured everyone's will be.

One reason you might consider compassion is because, frankly, it is an important part of the teachings that you follow. I would think that you would at least be open to the idea even if you are not able to actuate it immediately. I certainly do not claim to be able to walk my talk all the time but I would at least like to be able to and can readily acknowledge that it is something to strive for.
Joyful girl, you do indeed make sense, and I will reflect upon it.

Thank you.
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:40 PM   #53
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I am glad that there were legal actions taken against her. Most cases, though, the mother is served alcohol in bars and restaurants, and if the server refuses to serve the woman, then the server is fired. And most cases the woman is not punished.
Not punished legally I should say. She has to endure the neverending hardships of fetal alcohol syndrome.
My cousin was born FAS. Her mother would drink, most often alone at home so no one would see her, but one time, at seven months pregnant, she came over and drank the remaining of my mom's beer. I think she drank two, and then she went outside and I ran in and dumped the rest out. I was so mad that she did that.
She is now a hardcore alcoholic, gave her kids to the dad and drinks heavily every day. She says she doesn't ever want to stop, she is drinking to kill herself.
This is a disease and I find it heartbreaking for people to lash out at people with a disease.
"Fucking hell! You are an alcoholic! You ruined people's lives forever, most of all your own children!"
"Fucking hell! You have cancer! You ruined people's lives forever, most of all your own children!"
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:44 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by xtal

This is a disease and I find it heartbreaking for people to lash out at people with a disease.
"Fucking hell! You are an alcoholic! You ruined people's lives forever, most of all your own children!"
"Fucking hell! You have cancer! You ruined people's lives forever, most of all your own children!"
You do have to admit there is a difference. Choosing to drink leads to Alcoholism (except in the case of fetal alcohol syndrome), and as difficult as it may be to stop, people can stop.

However, there are many types of cancer that come about as a result of nothing the victim ever did.
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:44 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


My father DID quit. One day he was a drinker, and the next he stopped and he never did again. If that's not quitting, what is it? One of the reasons I say "was" is because my father passed away in 1993. The other is because when he stopped drinking he was no longer controlled by alcohol.

Why is it cold of me not to feel any compassion for her? She may have brain damaged her child for life. If she had accidentally injured her child, through no fault of her own, I'd feel compassion. Right now I am just so angry at her stupid choices and the consequences of her actions that the thought of "compassion" toward her doesn't even enter my mind.
I don't doubt your father up and quit one day, but if that's the case I don't think he was an alcoholic. I know that sounds presumptuous because I never met him, but the withdrawal symptoms that a chemically dependant person would experience just going cold turkey like that...it's dangerous, deadly.

Do you believe in alcoholism as a disease, or a choice? It all comes down to that really, and I think you would find it much easier to feel compassion for the woman if you felt it was, in her current state, outside of her control.
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:45 PM   #56
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Though some people are genetically predisposed to alcoholism, I do think we can run the risk of abnegating personal responsibility of we go too far down the 'alcohol is a disease' route.
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:49 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


You do have to admit there is a difference. Choosing to drink leads to Alcoholism (except in the case of fetal alcohol syndrome), and as difficult as it may be to stop, people can stop.

However, there are many types of cancer that come about as a result of nothing the victim ever did.
Choosing to drink *is* the choice of the person, however most people can drink casually and when someone takes their first drink they assume they will be able to as well. It's safest never to drink at all, but it's hard to condemn every person who takes the first drink.

Frankly, I'm scared. My mother is an alcoholic, my mother's mother is an alcoholic, my mother's two sisters are alcoholics (one of them nearly died last year). On the one hand, I want to be able to drink casually when I go to college and after, but on the other hand I don't want to end up like that. It's not as simple as it seems.
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:49 PM   #58
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Alcoholism is not a choice. It's in your blood, it's genetic, it's physiological.
Why don't you read the book "Under The Influence".
Do some studying to back up your illogical views on a disease, that yes, people are born with as a result of nothing the victim ever did.

Let me repeat: Alcoholism is a disease that people are born with. Some recover, some don't. This is not a choice.
Cancer is a disease that some people are born with are or vulnerable because of genetics. Some recover, some don't. This is not a choice.
There is no difference.
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:51 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


You do have to admit there is a difference. Choosing to drink leads to Alcoholism (except in the case of fetal alcohol syndrome), and as difficult as it may be to stop, people can stop.

However, there are many types of cancer that come about as a result of nothing the victim ever did.
But there are many that could have been avoided.

No one blames those that seriously overeat and acquire such diseases as diabetes etc.
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:51 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Choosing to drink leads to Alcoholism
i don't think that choosing to drink leads anyone to alcoholism. people are either predisposed to addictive personalities or they aren't. i suppose if you are predisposed and never try alcohol, you may not manifest the signs of an alcoholic, but you could still be one, even if you weren't aware of it. choice has nothing to do with it.
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