Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-16-2004, 04:49 AM   #1
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Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

Okay, this relates to all religions, but more specifically Christianity. You guys are gonna be pissed at me and several of you 'realists' may agree with me.

God doesn't exist. Jesus was either just a good man who :
never claimed to be God, claimed to be god or simply never existed. This man was perfect to become the figurehead of a new Jewish Sect. This religion was desperately needed as a relief from Paganism (which taught that God hated humans) and the Jewish law that was very burdonsome (circumcision). Years and years later of ORAL history (we all know how reliable that is!) the Gospels were written, where Jesus was made into this God-like creature that could heal people, and resurrect from the dead! From then on, bullshit after bullshit was layed upon these doctrines and the Bible and WHAZOO, we have Christianity.
The gospels were written by groups of people (eg John). These people were relying on history that came down after generations via word of mouth. The Gospels are either purely ficticious (to create Jesus into this almighty figure) or they were gathered from information from word of mouth. Now come on people, how could any of you believe a WORD the Bible says! It baffles me! People that live their lives by the Bible are, in my opinion, quit ignorant. I can't put it any other way. And by the way, if God supposedly gave us reason, why must we abide by his rules and not use our own judgement (I admire the ethics of Humanism!).

FACT - Did you guys know that Original Sin was purely made up to get members into the Church? All people are born with sin until they are BAPTIZTED where they are cleansed (bullshit). It must be done at birth to secure members into the Church, like a marketing tool. Very dishonest and sneaky, would Jesus make up a lie like that!?

FACT - Christianity started as blackmail. If you give 100 bits of gold to the Church, your time in purgatory will be reduced to 500 years, if you don't, you will have to wait for 5000 years!

I could go on and on, but I won't. People that believe in any religion fascinate me. Did they really make an independent leap of faith or are they merely holding on in order for salvation (You wouldn't want to burn in hell with all the fire and sharp things! BTW this scare tactic which the Church implemented is downright mean to those gullible\slow people).

Look there are so many things I hate about religion, especially Christianity, but I won't go on. But I am deeply interested religion, how it acts as a tool to control people by those few in power. (Christian doctrine could only be changed by the rich and powerful). As you guys could guess, I am an athiest, been all my life. I couldn't give myself ONE REASON to believe anything that was told to me about Christianity. I searched, I failed. I was a forced Catholic that went to Church every week (and still does, my parents force me to!!), that woke up and realized that, religion is an invention by humans for humans for regulating the lower classes (in the old days), as a revenue generator. However, you people all need religion, not me, you guys. Without it, there will be chaos obviously.

I'll end with a quote from U2's Last Night on Earth : "THE MORE YOU KNOW, THE LESS YOU BELIEVE" (Think about it)

You guys all hate me now, please reply angriliy or reply with other reasons why Christianity should be condemned!
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Old 09-16-2004, 04:52 AM   #2
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It is not your place to condemn peoples beliefs, their belief is no more valid than your own thoughts on the subject. By condeming the followers of the bible as "plain fucking stupid" it does nothing for anybody. You would be offending many members of this board and as a matter of fact you are offending me.

I find the human spirit is not a divine thing, simply that one piece that humanity has and other animals do not. I think that it drives us all to better things. I have no problem if somebody can see the divine in the human spirit or will use holy books as inspiration, provided it does not hurt anybody.

By claiming supiriority over others because of your beliefs you are as bad as any bible thumping religious bigot, a little more tollerance and human compassion is all that it takes to make the world a better place.

In the final analysis people must live their lives the way they want to, it is better for everybody if people can lead moral lives. Religion can give structure and inspire people to make things better, nobody should ever try to take that away and make others ashamed of their beliefs (as long as it doesn't hurt anybody).

Reverse the situation, how would you feel if some jerk started mouthing off and calling you a fuckwit because you don't believe?

Putting every bit of bad done by secular governments as proof that absence of religion is immoral and bad?
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Old 09-16-2004, 04:54 AM   #3
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Well I didn't read past your first sentence. I'm no zealot by any means but you cannot tell me there was no Jesus (or God), as an assertion out of thin air, and expect me to take you seriously.

You aren't making much sense, sorry. But then again, nor is anyone else in this Goddamned forum.
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Old 09-16-2004, 04:56 AM   #4
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Is it just me or is 'inflammatory' the working model for FYM posting now?

I can't agree with the radical athiests because I DO believe in GOD, and I can't agree with the Christian rightwingers because I find their beliefs a radical distortion of my Christian faith. Guess I'm fresh out of luck, guys!
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:00 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kieran McConville
Well I didn't read past your first sentence. I'm no zealot by any means but you cannot tell me there was no Jesus (or God), as an assertion out of thin air, and expect me to take you seriously.

You aren't making much sense, sorry. But then again, nor is anyone else in this Goddamned forum.
Thin air? Isn't that where this religion was born in? Or are you just believing and standing by what you have been told? What's there too lose? If we believe and its true, we win. If we believe and it's ficticious, so what? Many people thought\think like this.
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:05 AM   #6
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Ah, the Pascal model for belief, infinite gain and negligable loss?

Christianity didn't just pop out of thin air, it is a collection of millenia of myths and legends. Adapted into holy texts which were taken up as belief. It shows examples of morality and can help people live their lives.

Everybody needs to have faith in something, if you dont then you will lead a very empty life.

This seems to be a trollish post, pure flamebait.
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:05 AM   #7
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Look, friend, I am not going to argue about this. You can't just pull a statement like 'there is no Jesus' out of your ass, and expect to be taken seriously. Don't you get it? You want to come across as a rationalist, but you are coming on with a statement that demands a reaction of faith - ie. there is no God because you believe there is no God.

Honestly, I am anything but a devoutly religious person. But I just don't like shoddy rhetoric.
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
It is not your place to condemn peoples beliefs, their belief is no more valid than your own thoughts on the subject. By condeming the followers of the bible as "plain fucking stupid" it does nothing for anybody. You would be offending many members of this board and as a matter of fact you are offending me.

I find the human spirit is not a divine thing, simply that one piece that humanity has and other animals do not. I think that it drives us all to better things. I have no problem if somebody can see the divine in the human spirit or will use holy books as inspiration, provided it does not hurt anybody.

By claiming supiriority over others because of your beliefs you are as bad as any bible thumping religious bigot, a little more tollerance and human compassion is all that it takes to make the world a better place.

In the final analysis people must live their lives the way they want to, it is better for everybody if people can lead moral lives. Religion can give structure and inspire people to make things better, nobody should ever try to take that away and make others ashamed of their beliefs (as long as it doesn't hurt anybody).

Reverse the situation, how would you feel if some jerk started mouthing off and calling you a fuckwit because you don't believe?

Putting every bit of bad done by secular governments as proof that absence of religion is immoral and bad?
The forum is FREE YOUR MIND - not literally? Or just to an extent where we don't endanger the social cohesion in society which leads to turmoil. It shouldn't offend anybody, you many be shocked, angered, but not offended as I thought this whole forum was meant to empasize opinions and viewpoints. Or is that just for the people that are 'right', you guys? I was just 'freeing my mind' with my own viewpoints on the whole area of religion.
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:08 AM   #9
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Well you may make a point but saying other peoples opinions are plain fucking stupid makes no sense. I am no friend to religion but I know when there is a breach of ettiquite, be rational and balanced and maintain a certain level of respect for those you disagree with.

You can get a lot furthur by asking the questions than by calling peoples beliefs fucking stupid. A little respect for eachother ensures that people can free their mind and look at it from the other perspective.

Offended by the way you made the argument, not the argument itself. Hell I agree with you that Christianity is based on a sham, but I wouldn't go around calling believers mugs. Its that self-righteous behaviour that causes so much of the shit in the world in the first place. I fear the man who knows that he is always right more than somebody who considers what they are doing.
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:09 AM   #10
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Excuse me while I go get my freedom on.

Don't cry persecution, mate. Any political forum includes the right to be CHALLENGED. Nobody ever seems to get that bit.

Let's talk about the new U2 album or something. On second thoughts, let's not.
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Ah, the Pascal model for belief, infinite gain and negligable loss?

Christianity didn't just pop out of thin air, it is a collection of millenia of myths and legends. Adapted into holy texts which were taken up as belief. It shows examples of morality and can help people live their lives.

Everybody needs to have faith in something, if you dont then you will lead a very empty life.

This seems to be a trollish post, pure flamebait.
Of course, everybody must have a faith, it is a fundamental element to the sustaination of life and sanity. I agree with you. I personally don't have any faith (how can your soul to anything even though you have no real basis for it is beyond me. If you disagree with me, please tell me WHY you take your leaps of faith, I would love to know, I didn't come here to stir, but understand.) I wasn't condemning people for having a faith, that's fine, I'm just expressing my views on why I disagree with this certain 'faith.' But you all need it nevertheless
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:13 AM   #12
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I changed 'fucking stupid' to 'quite ignorant' to make people not write me off at the sighting of a curse word.
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:18 AM   #13
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Reverse the situation, how would you feel if some jerk started mouthing off and calling you a fuckwit because you don't believe?
[/B]
Originally I said people that follow the Bible PURELY, ie. word for word, those 'fanatics' are 'f****** s*****,' which was probably pretty harsh. But I wasn't referring to everyone! Please keep it in context.
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:18 AM   #14
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Not a faith, faith. Confidence in something, a thing in this world that can be counted on, something that will not falter. I am not religious, I am an atheist but I do think that all the good that people see in God is really a reflection of the good in people. Faith in humanity is difficult to bear, knowing how much evil is done by man - but seeing those selfless acts it restores that faith that there are enough good people to fight back against the evil that persists in this world.

Now I do not consider my absence of belief to make me or my ideas any better than other peoples (with a few notable exceptions e.g. Christian Right, Islamic Fundamentalists, Pagans) because if you look at the universe, a big blob of energy and matter smashed over a heap of dimensions there is enough uncertainty to keep the existence of God or a creator a distinct possibility.
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:28 AM   #15
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Not a faith, faith. Confidence in something, a thing in this world that can be counted on, something that will not falter. I am not religious, I am an atheist but I do think that all the good that people see in God is really a reflection of the good in people. Faith in humanity is difficult to bear, knowing how much evil is done by man - but seeing those selfless acts it restores that faith that there are enough good people to fight back against the evil that persists in this world.

Now I do not consider my absence of belief to make me or my ideas any better than other peoples (with a few notable exceptions e.g. Christian Right, Islamic Fundamentalists, Pagans) because if you look at the universe, a big blob of energy and matter smashed over a heap of dimensions there is enough uncertainty to keep the existence of God or a creator a distinct possibility.
I agree with you to some extent mate. I wasn't making my stance on how I defined 'faith' clear enough. Indeed, the illusionary effect (I believe) of goodness that God creates does bring about goodness in people, and yes it may even reach the extent where it overpowers evil in the world. Faith brings out the best in people, even if it's false, religion\faith is indeed serving it's function (as Moore and Habel would describe it).

This may not directly relate to your last point, but this uncertainty created over a heap of deimension mashed together etc, and how that creates a possibility of a God, is something I choose not to accept. We must think, who then created God, and who created the being that created God? Logically, the only place to draw the line is, in my mind, right at the start.
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