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Old 09-17-2004, 07:45 AM   #106
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Exactly my point. That's what I meant, why pick on Christians specifically? If you are against religion, and God, then you obviously don't believe in ANY religion so why just single out Christians for your statement? Can't you see how offensive that appears?
Because I know nothing bar the spelling of Hinduism, Buddhism etc. (I know a bit about Judaism and how it developed over the years.) Why I am 'picking' on Christianity should have been obvious. I have been a Catholic for 17 years and fed quite a bit of gruel. And this shouldn't be offensive, I'm not calling Christianity and Christians bullshit\dickheads. I am saying with why I disagree with it. Be shocked but not offended. BTW this is becoming quite difficult to fend of all these attacks, some non-Christian back me up here, I seem to have my hands full.


GO VERTIGO GO!!
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Old 09-17-2004, 07:53 AM   #107
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Originally posted by AussieU2fanman


Because I know nothing bar the spelling of Hinduism, Buddhism etc. (I know a bit about Judaism and how it developed over the years.) Why I am 'picking' on Christianity should have been obvious. I have been a Catholic for 17 years and fed quite a bit of gruel. And this shouldn't be offensive, I'm not calling Christianity and Christians bullshit\dickheads. I am saying with why I disagree with it. Be shocked but not offended. BTW this is becoming quite difficult to fend of all these attacks, some non-Christian back me up here, I seem to have my hands full.
So you're saying that other religions are valid, then that means you DO think God might really exist after all, so you're not an atheist, you just have a vendetta against Christianity. Right?

There are several atheists on this forum and some of them have posted in this thread but they have never done anything offensive. You can believe what you want but when you attack others for their beliefs that crosses the line. I don't see how anyone can 'back you up' because what you're saying is so hate filled and offensive. And, as I have had to learn myself the hard way, if you aren't up to negative posts and 'fending off attacks' it's best not to post something this controversial. Be it religion, music, sports or fashiion, I have grown weary of people who post something provacative and then get annoyed at the negative responses. Oh, then they cry 'freedom of speech.' Well, like Bush said about the Dixie Chicks getting mad at the outcry against them after they dissed him, freedom of speech goes BOTH WAYS. If you are to be free to say what you want, others are also free to say they don't like it.
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Old 09-17-2004, 07:56 AM   #108
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i think some people should be more careful with the language they use
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Old 09-17-2004, 07:59 AM   #109
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

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Originally posted by AussieU2fanman


Well like any other religion, although Christianity has a greater sense of community, it is still in the form of a Hierachy. I am not casting judgement on everyone, that's silly. The power was pruely in the hands of the very wealthy over the history of Christianity. The people in power could change whatever they sought please, and if anyone disagreed, they were classed as Heretics and were brutally slaughtered. Let's say for a second that none of the Jesus story actually happened, I guarantee we would get a similar\identical result today. This religion\sects were absolutely necessary at the time to turn the people away from Paganism that was tearing society apart. In my opinion, a person like Jesus would have been invented who is a Messiah, who will free the slaves, who will provide salvation for everyone, including the lower classes. If you suffer now, you will have true treasure in Heaven. Think about it, it would be just a ploy invented by the powerful to control the masses and create order in society. Even if all these stories didn't happen (which I believe), surely there would be a similar\identical result in today's society. I strongly believe this religion was going to be formed irrespective of whether the whole Jesus story was true. There was no choice.



Keep whatever was in quotes prior to when I said, 'Keep it in context.'
BTW what authenticity is this religion based on then? This is a concept I can't grasp. And no I am not reading the Da Vinci Code.
Whoah! Leaps and bounds here! How would a messiah that liberates the poor serve those in power? If anything, the radical message of love and tolerance would have subverted the power structure, therefore it was generally was ignored and replaced with fear and superstition.

Paganism tearing society apart?? Roman you mean? There are numerous reasons why Rome fell, least of them religious. Christianity was hardly successful in unifying society after that anyway. Christendom was divided for hundreds of years, until the middle ages.

The Protestant church has no hierarchy, and I believe the Orthodox is less so than the Catholic. Have you looked at the reformation, the social gospel or liberation theology?

For me the authenticity of Christianity is based on at least 2000 years of human experience and history.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:06 AM   #110
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aussieman - are you an atheist ? YES OR NO
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:07 AM   #111
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Originally posted by U2Kitten


So you're saying that other religions are valid, then that means you DO think God might really exist after all, so you're not an atheist, you just have a vendetta against Christianity. Right?

There are several atheists on this forum and some of them have posted in this thread but they have never done anything offensive. You can believe what you want but when you attack others for their beliefs that crosses the line. I don't see how anyone can 'back you up' because what you're saying is so hate filled and offensive. And, as I have had to learn myself the hard way, if you aren't up to negative posts and 'fending off attacks' it's best not to post something this controversial. Be it religion, music, sports or fashiion, I have grown weary of people who post something provacative and then get annoyed at the negative responses. Oh, then they cry 'freedom of speech.' Well, like Bush said about the Dixie Chicks getting mad at the outcry against them after they dissed him, freedom of speech goes BOTH WAYS. If you are to be free to say what you want, others are also free to say they don't like it.
I am in no way completely endorsing the valdility of God based on the fact that I am unaware of the doctrine\history of the other major religions. I am specifically talking about Christianity, and what they teach about God. And stop calling my posts 'hate filled.' This is the 3rd post you have made which is quite frankly pissing me off. We are having discussions here and the only real negative posts are coming from you. I don't hate anybody, and I am not condemning any forms of people. And I am getting tired of repeating myself to people that won't listen. I am doing the best I can to listen to everyone here.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:11 AM   #112
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Originally posted by AcrobatMan
Kieran

Everything is not as simple as you think.

There are fantasies and there are facts. Please dont get confused.

AcrobatMan
Hey Acrobatman, I haven't a clue what this is supposed to mean. Which of my statements brought that on?

Please don't assume I 'think' everything is so simple. In fact, please don't assume, full stop.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:19 AM   #113
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Originally posted by AussieU2fanman


I am in no way completely endorsing the valdility of God based on the fact that I am unaware of the doctrine\history of the other major religions. I am specifically talking about Christianity, and what they teach about God.
I'm saying DO YOU BELIEVE there is a supreme being in control of the universe? By saying the Christian God doesn't exist, it's the same as saying the Jewish and Islamic God don't, because they are one and the same. From your first post, you seemed not to believe in any supreme power in any form. Is that it, or do you just have a vendetta against Christianity?

Quote:
And stop calling my posts 'hate filled.' This is the 3rd post you have made which is quite frankly pissing me off. We are having discussions here and the only real negative posts are coming from you. I don't hate anybody, and I am not condemning any forms of people. And I am getting tired of repeating myself to people that won't listen. I am doing the best I can to listen to everyone here.
The purpose of this thread was to tell people off and hence piss people off. If you didn't want it taken that way, why did you do it?
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:19 AM   #114
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

Quote:
Originally posted by iacrobat


Whoah! Leaps and bounds here! How would a messiah that liberates the poor serve those in power? If anything, the radical message of love and tolerance would have subverted the power structure, therefore it was generally was ignored and replaced with fear and superstition.

Paganism tearing society apart?? Roman you mean? There are numerous reasons why Rome fell, least of them religious. Christianity was hardly successful in unifying society after that anyway. Christendom was divided for hundreds of years, until the middle ages.

The Protestant church has no hierarchy, and I believe the Orthodox is less so than the Catholic. Have you looked at the reformation, the social gospel or liberation theology?

For me the authenticity of Christianity is based on at least 2000 years of human experience and history.
Of course a Messiah that liberates the poor would serve those in power! Think about it. I am a slave that is serving under Christian rule (generally speaking). I have a shit life, BUT, what keeps me going? Why don't I just give in and die? The idea of Jesus coming to save me from all that I have suffered in this world, and I would be living forever in a happy place called heaven. The more pain I live here, the more treasure I will have in heaven (similar to the execution of Jesus story). It's really very simple.

Christianity suceeded for many reasons. It was so appealing to the people. Roman Paganism taught that God's were vengeful and hated humans. But then comes along Christianity that taught that God loved everyone and everyone is equal etc. Who wouldn't like that? This is a fantastic revolution in the world. Christianity was brilliant at uniting society, (there were some problems during it's birth in relation to the Halakah being phased out.) but nontheless, it was so appealing to the people that it spread thoughout the world and eventually, Rome adopted it because people were turning away from Paganism.

A MAJOR reason why Christianity suceeded was the money. Paganism was funded by the state while Christianity was funded by communities with voluntary donations. When the Roman government saw that Paganism was so damn expensive to sustain, they switched to Christianity. (just a bit of history I'd like to add). Even though it is very community based, it is still in the form of a great and somewhat untouchable hierarchy.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:29 AM   #115
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Originally posted by U2Kitten


I'm saying DO YOU BELIEVE there is a supreme being in control of the universe? By saying the Christian God doesn't exist, it's the same as saying the Jewish and Islamic God don't, because they are one and the same. From your first post, you seemed not to believe in any supreme power in any form. Is that it, or do you just have a vendetta against Christianity?

No I don't believe that there is a supreme governor, but I will not publically say that Hindu\Muslim teachings are void, I know nothing of them. From what I personally believe, there is no supreme being at all, but I won't condemn any other religions. I am using Christianity as an example.

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten

The purpose of this thread was to tell people off and hence piss people off. If you didn't want it taken that way, why did you do it?
People may be angry with me, that was a side effect of starting such a debate. The pure motive is to tell people off? That is ridiculous. It's not even a part motive of starting this thread. We are trying to have a civilized debate here.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:31 AM   #116
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Okay I stay away from this thread from now on.

Just a useless misdirected thread.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:36 AM   #117
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I guess that means I don't get my question answered, huh.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:38 AM   #118
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

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Originally posted by AussieU2fanman


I do know quite alot about Christianity. After all, I have been a Christian for 17 years and went to Church EVERY week (obviously by name only, but now I have withdrawn form Christianity). In Catholicism the Ten commandments are very relevant. I was brought up with it. I heard them in Church, I was taught them in a Catholic school. They are extremely relevant, I don't know what you are talking about. Even though they were taught in the Old Testament, Christianity still does recognise it. Jesus was recognised as the new covenant that overwrote the Jewish dietry\circumcision laws. The old laws of Moses ie. 10 commandments, were still kept and are still alive today, and that's why I, and everybody else was taught them under Christian power. (This may only be in my country, I could be wrong, please correct me if I am).
Please read my posts before commenting people, not just the first one! I can't be bothered explaining things I have already explained, for instance, this guy said I have no interest in Christianity. I made it quite clear that I was very interested in all religions, especially Christianity! Just because I don't believe what they teach, it doesn't mean I don't admire their orginality and creativity.
OK, so you're critiquing CATHOLOCISM, not Christianity in general. You should've made that more clear.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:40 AM   #119
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I was wondering where that statement from Acrobat man came from also.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:41 AM   #120
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all yo

Quote:
Originally posted by AussieU2fanman

Christianity was brilliant at uniting society
I'm sorry, but that's the most blissfully ignorant thing I've read in a LONG time!
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