Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

[ThatGuy]

Let me throw some more meat in here...what about agnostics? I know someone who is an agnostic. The way he puts it is that he doesn't believe in God, but is open to the fact that their may be a God.

That's pretty much the way I see it. I don't think that there's enough conclusive evidence on either side for me to decide one way or the other. Not believing in a god requires just as much faith (in my mind) as believing in one.

Though I must note that I believe that if a god does exist it's most likely in the "first mover" theory mold suggested by Aquinas.

The First Way

Edited for stupid misspellings.

 

[ThatGuy]

Pleased to be explaing this? Im not quite following what you are saying.

Just that fervent anti-religiousness isn't limited to those who were members of, and then left, a religion. I've known a couple of athiests who have created their own anti-religion religions without ever having been part of a religious congregation.

 

[nbcrusader]

Funny thing about Atheists is that they tend to be more obsessed about God than some Christians.....

 

[beli]

Atheists are ONLY interested in God, thats the point.

Christianity is a RELIGION and thusly has many facets.

*really need to do stuff with my children. Will be back later*

 

[beli]

Just that fervent anti-religiousness isn't limited to those who were members of, and then left, a religion. I've known a couple of athiests who have created their own anti-religion religions without ever having been part of a religious congregation.

Agreed.

Apologies if my previous post sounds a bit narky. Mustn't post when running out the door lol

 

[indra]

Funny thing about Atheists is that they tend to be more obsessed about God than some Christians.....

I think it's because many want to know just what prompts so many people to believe something they find totally nonsensical.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

You know what I find interesting?

The more you read about Jesus Christ, the more real he becomes.

Don't you think that with all that we know today, a fiasco of this magnitude would have already been discovered? God has made it so that he doesn't force himself into your heart.

It is frustrating for Christians to have a God like that. A gentle, loving God that almost waits to be accepted. I wish God would send some enormous undeniable sign (which I'm sure people like you would probably still find a way to explain) to remove all doubt. But see, the problem with that is that his "believers" will no longer be driven by their faiith. What merit would there be in following a God that has proven himself to you? It wouldn't be faith. There would be nothing special about your devotion for him. He loves us so much that he gives us a choice. Whether to be in the light or not.

There have been people who have made it their burden to prove Jesus' inexistance and have "failed" in their own terms because they themselves became Chrisitans.

Go ahead, read a little about Christ. Go to the root of it all. Don't go to a legalist Chrisitan who makes it all seem like an elitist club. God loves us all. Without discrimation. Except he is waiting for you to make the choice on your own.

So really I would say the quote (when it comes to Chistinaity) should be:

"The more you know, The more you believe"

Any questions at all or just conversation feel free to PM me.

God Bless.

 

[indra]

You know what I find interesting?

The more you read about Jesus Christ, the more real he becomes.

Don't you think that with all that we know today, a fiasco of this magnitude would have already been discovered? God has made it so that he doesn't force himself into your heart.

It is frustrating for Christians to have a God like that. A gentle, loving God that almost waits to be accepted. I wish God would send some enormous undeniable sign (which I'm sure people like you would probably still find a way to explain) to remove all doubt. But see, the problem with that is that his "believers" will no longer be driven by their faiith. What merit would there be in following a God that has proven himself to you? It wouldn't be faith. There would be nothing special about your devotion for him. He loves us so much that he gives us a choice. Whether to be in the light or not.

There have been people who have made it their burden to prove Jesus' inexistance and have "failed" in their own terms because they themselves became Chrisitans.

Go ahead, read a little about Christ. Go to the root of it all. Don't go to a legalist Chrisitan who makes it all seem like an elitist club. God loves us all. Without discrimation. Except he is waiting for you to make the choice on your own.

So really I would say the quote (when it comes to Chistinaity) should be:

"The more you know, The more you believe"

Any questions at all or just conversation feel free to PM me.

God Bless.

If it works for you, great. About your quote "The more you know, the more you believe"...well, for me it has been the exact opposite. In a sense, although you said it very nicely, and I think you meant no offense to anyone...what you just wrote is the equivalent of me saying you are ignorant for believing as you do. I'm not ignorant about various religions/beliefs, I simply do not accept them as true. I'm an intelligent, educated heathen.

I'm interested in understanding why people believe as they do -- whatever that belief. And the more different their belief is to mine, the more interesting it is to me to understand. I mean why, upon reading the same Bible does one person go "OK, that's the word of God and I will base my life on it" yet I go "Ok, some good ideas there...but there are equally good ideas in the Bhagavad Gita (etc, etc,), so what's the big deal?"?

I'm sure some of the questions I ask seem impertinent to many, but I think it's important to explore why we believe as we do (whatever that is), and sometimes that is uncomfortable.

 

[iacrobat]

You know what I find interesting?

The more you read about Jesus Christ, the more real he becomes.

Don't you think that with all that we know today, a fiasco of this magnitude would have already been discovered? God has made it so that he doesn't force himself into your heart.

It is frustrating for Christians to have a God like that. A gentle, loving God that almost waits to be accepted. I wish God would send some enormous undeniable sign (which I'm sure people like you would probably still find a way to explain) to remove all doubt. But see, the problem with that is that his "believers" will no longer be driven by their faiith. What merit would there be in following a God that has proven himself to you? It wouldn't be faith. There would be nothing special about your devotion for him. He loves us so much that he gives us a choice. Whether to be in the light or not.

There have been people who have made it their burden to prove Jesus' inexistance and have "failed" in their own terms because they themselves became Chrisitans.

Go ahead, read a little about Christ. Go to the root of it all. Don't go to a legalist Chrisitan who makes it all seem like an elitist club. God loves us all. Without discrimation. Except he is waiting for you to make the choice on your own.

So really I would say the quote (when it comes to Chistinaity) should be:

"The more you know, The more you believe"

Any questions at all or just conversation feel free to PM me.

God Bless.

Alert! Alert! Conversion attempt imminent!

 

[U2Kitten]

I think a lot of reasons people don't believe is that they doubt the authenticiity of the writings, or the writers themselves. They find holes in the stories. A lot of what has been written here, the changing stuff to take in Roman pagans, questions about who wrote what at what time, etc. I have heard expressed by many agnostics I knew, most of whom ended up becoming kind of religious. I think a person who asks a lot of questions is at least someone who is interested. While I do see that a lot of the historical content can be questioned in some ways, and I have wondered about things myself, it doesn't take away my faith, because any of the mistakes made were human error. I often say, don't blame God, blame religion,or what some men have made of it. I am a believer in God and Jesus, in concept, in general, not every single detail. I know there is something there, and I don't let the failings of men ruin it for me. I take that into consideration and go on. I have personally felt it, and I know it's true. That's why it bothers me so much to see people belittling someone's beliefs.

 

[Angela Harlem]

I've stayed out of this for a while. Based on this comment, I am not sure you have a deep, meaningful understanding of Christian doctrine and the difference between Catholicism, Protestantism or Christianity.

Well this explains why I'm going straight to the burning pits of deepest hell. Did you know I'm a religious half caste?

Woe is me.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Don't worry Angela, Im sure that you will get off lightly and go to pergatory .

In all seriousness though most major religions have core truths at their heart. Things that seem to be universal human qualities. I think that anything that makes people lead better lives and be more tollerant should at least be respected, anything that does otherwise must be rejected.

 

[Angela Harlem]

It's only when the leading of a better life and a lack of tolernace takes over, that I start getting problems with it all.

Well....that and the blatant hypocrisy which I see too often.

 

[U2Kitten]

It's only when the leading of a better life and a lack of tolernace takes over, that I start getting problems with it all.

Well....that and the blatant hypocrisy which I see too often.

I agree, and that's why I say, don't blame God, blame religion. It makes me sad to see people turn against God because of what a few flawed humans are doing. That's why I keep it seperated. I believe it is very possible to have a relationship with God, and even a better one, when you don't go to church and get involved in a lot of groups. I've seen so much bad, many times more than good, come from the way people judge and feel about each other because they go to the 'wrong' church. Bono's famous quote said: "Organized religion is what happens when God leaves the room."

 

[Angela Harlem]

Excellently put. I agree.

What are the 10 commandments? Basic tenets of Christianity? My wording here might be off, but bear with me. One of these is thou shalt not kill. Understandably, this is so fundamental, it is written as a law of man now too. We just dont kill people. Yet some who are self proclaimed Christians support the death penalty. How the fuck is this justified? It truly confounds me.
I trounce up to church one day in my mini skirt and fishnets. What will the self proclaimed Christians think of me? What reaction woudl I get? "The kind of reaction someone wearing that deserves"? Indeed. Thou shalt no judge. My arse. Truly.
Geez I could go on. What are the whole 10 anyway?

Google time.

 

[Katey]

you know .. for all the things and reasons that I don't so much buy into organized religion anymore.. I'm really very thankful.. that I had that half catholic/protesant and actually got to see different sides and I think be tolerant ad understand the fact my parents had me in church every sunday gave me the roots that to me today are bigger then religion ..just some really huge ideas "love thy neighbour", I spent alot of years seeing how far I could push..like ya I'm really gone test this God.. and no matter what I did I could never get away.. hearing Amazing Grace and How Great Thou Art can still bring me to my knees with out a moments hesitation..thats a powerful thing.. when my life seems just to insane sometimes those things slow me down and remind me
I'd be looking for this Zeus type god throwing down lighting bolts
my father use say..stop looking for god he already found you..not in the big clap of his thunder , but in the smallest wonder

 

[BostonAnne]

I think a lot of reasons people don't believe is that they doubt the authenticiity of the writings, or the writers themselves. They find holes in the stories. A lot of what has been written here, the changing stuff to take in Roman pagans, questions about who wrote what at what time, etc. I have heard expressed by many agnostics I knew, most of whom ended up becoming kind of religious. I think a person who asks a lot of questions is at least someone who is interested. While I do see that a lot of the historical content can be questioned in some ways, and I have wondered about things myself, it doesn't take away my faith, because any of the mistakes made were human error. I often say, don't blame God, blame religion,or what some men have made of it. I am a believer in God and Jesus, in concept, in general, not every single detail. I know there is something there, and I don't let the failings of men ruin it for me. I take that into consideration and go on. I have personally felt it, and I know it's true. That's why it bothers me so much to see people belittling someone's beliefs.

I agree. I am also a believer in God and Jesus, in concept, in general, but not every single detail.

 

[AussieU2fanman]

You know what I find interesting?

The more you read about Jesus Christ, the more real he becomes.

Don't you think that with all that we know today, a fiasco of this magnitude would have already been discovered? God has made it so that he doesn't force himself into your heart.

It is frustrating for Christians to have a God like that. A gentle, loving God that almost waits to be accepted. I wish God would send some enormous undeniable sign (which I'm sure people like you would probably still find a way to explain) to remove all doubt. But see, the problem with that is that his "believers" will no longer be driven by their faiith. What merit would there be in following a God that has proven himself to you? It wouldn't be faith. There would be nothing special about your devotion for him. He loves us so much that he gives us a choice. Whether to be in the light or not.

There have been people who have made it their burden to prove Jesus' inexistance and have "failed" in their own terms because they themselves became Chrisitans.

Go ahead, read a little about Christ. Go to the root of it all. Don't go to a legalist Chrisitan who makes it all seem like an elitist club. God loves us all. Without discrimation. Except he is waiting for you to make the choice on your own.

So really I would say the quote (when it comes to Chistinaity) should be:

"The more you know, The more you believe"

Any questions at all or just conversation feel free to PM me.

God Bless.

The more you know, the MORE you belive? I would think after reading all these contradictory false stories that it would revesrse ones faith in Christ. The more I read about Christianity\Christ, the more I believed that it was facbricated. Initially, as a child, with such basic knowledge, I believed in God\Jesus because I only knew the very basic stories. It's until you read about the Gospels (not what's in them), the factorial history, not superstition, that you realize not everything is what it seems?
The more you know the less you believe. Your just lucky Bono's not here!

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

I disagree completely.

Tell me, when do the Gospels contradict?

The Bible is so perfect. Read Psalm 22. A book written a thousand years before Christ. It describes everything that Jesus will go through.

Things in the Bible don't contradict. Au contraire they confirm what it says elsewhere in the Bible.

The truth is Jesus' existance is undeniable. I could really stay here and try to convince you of things but that truth is, God doesn't work like that.

Like I said in my previous post. You have to look for him. You have to strip yourself of your pride and admit that you cannot save yourself and that only through his sacrifice can we go to heaven. Because deeds aren't what get you into heaven; it's your faith.

Read more about Jesus. You'll see how it all simply makes sense. And don't close your eyes to it. Be humble and view the new things.

I hope I didn't suond offensive.

 

[2861U2]

Im sorry you feel that way.

Remember: Amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

 

[Angela Harlem]

And God made icebergs.

 

[AussieU2fanman]

I disagree completely.

Tell me, when do the Gospels contradict?

The Bible is so perfect.

OUCH!

Things in the Bible don't contradict.
The truth is Jesus' existance is undeniable.

MY EYES, THE GOGGLES DO NOTHING!

Like I said in my previous post. You have to look for him. You have to strip yourself of your pride and admit that you cannot save yourself and that only through his sacrifice can we go to heaven. Because deeds aren't what get you into heaven; it's your faith.

Read more about Jesus. You'll see how it all simply makes sense. And don't close your eyes to it. Be humble and view the new things.

I hope I didn't suond offensive.

Well I just can't be bothered anymore. I disagree with absolutely everything you said in this post, your post wasn't offensive, and I'm not trying to offend you. It will take me another couple of days to cycle through why I absolutely disagree with everything said from you, and other people that posted recently. But I have too much work to do at school and too much anticipation for Vertigo.

GO VERTIGO GO!!

 

[indra]

Im sorry you feel that way.

Remember: Amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

So God's an amateur?

 

[beli]

Things in the Bible don't contradict.

umm, yes it does.

Your correct answer should have been "The Bible was written by Man and is thus flawed, its only Gods word that matters"

Not that I want to assist the Christians in this thread.

 

[AussieU2fanman]

To put it simply, the Bible is the most flawed piece of literacy ever written. And the new testament was written years and years after Jesus Christ and communicated purely by word of mouth. (Let's not even MENTION the old testament) Do you have any idea how much bullshit was put in by hundreds and hundreds of people during the writing of the gospels\other bits of the new testament? (That's why I can't understand Bible bashers, to me, they are completely illogical and weakminded). I believe even the core truth, if there was any at all in the first place, has been completely lost.

 

[beli]

Do you have any idea how much bullshit was put in by hundreds and hundreds of people during the writing of the gospels\other bits of the new testament?

Your correct response should have been some examples from the New Testament that contradict the Old Testament and/or quotes from Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John that contradict each other, etc

 

[indra]

Not that I want to assist the Christians in this thread.

You're just playing both sides against each other.



And it's great fun, isn't it!

 

[beli]

You're just playing both sides against each other.



And it's great fun, isn't it!

lol

Im just bored, old, cranky, heard it all before, blah, etc. I think I will wonder off and make you an SK avatar ok?

 

[AussieU2fanman]

Your correct response should have been some examples from the New Testament that contradict the Old Testament and/or quotes from Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John that contradict each other, etc

No, I don't have to directly provide examples of contradiction, we all know it all contradicts to a very large extent. I was discussing how it was written by many people (this is the example of the gospels), many years after Jesus, and no real basis for their writings, except for word of mouth and stories told by their fathers. There weren't people following Jesus around writing down quotes and places he went etc. There was an uncomprehendable margin of error when these gospels were written, not to mention the rest of the Bible.

And by the way, don't you think that if Jesus was for real, ie. he healed people and walked on water, fed thousands of people, that the stories would have been written YEARS before they were written. I would have written the Gospel of Stefan the second I saw him do a miracle, I would have believed he was for real and so would everyone else. Think about it, these stories about Jesus doing magic tricks must have originated YEARS after he died, because if they did actually happen, everyone would go nuts and write the Gospels immediately. Conclusion? Jesus was just a man. The stories about Jesus were made up by people like you and me. Be real people, not faithful.

 

[A_Wanderer]

That would be an ecumenical question .