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Old 09-17-2004, 12:10 AM   #61
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


Hey you person, I respect our differences so let me help you out and explain some things. First of all, since you are not a Christian and judging by your posts, I can tell you have a very limited understanding of Christianity and Jesus. Jesus was not a prophet, he fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament prophets. Secondly, the Ten Commandments have very little relavence to Christianity anymore. They were part of those Old Testament traditions and prophecies that Jesus' life and death fulfilled.

If you're not interested in Christianity, you should at least know that the foundations of Christian faith and Christian living are based on the life and faith of Jesus Christ. People often get into nit-picky fights about the most rediculous subjects (like today in class, somewhere in the Bible it says women must have their hair long, men should wear hats, etc). As a general rule I always say, if Jesus didn't adress the issue, it's not important. Therefore, who gives a fuck if I have short hair and don't wrap my head in a scarf or whatever? These things can be fun and interesting to debate about, but as far as evalutating people's beliefs and religion, they're worthless. You need to forget about the Ten Commandments. You're basing your evalutation of Christianity on something that doesn't really matter any more. I respect everyone's opinion, but I think you need to do a bit more research before you start judging and entire religion based on things that make a lot of us go Your arguements thus far are so broad and uninformed that I could offer more sound proof that God DOES exist. If you have a more specific, more informed question/issue to present I'd be more than happy to help. Until then, I'm having a hard time finding anything in your posts worth discussing.
I do know quite alot about Christianity. After all, I have been a Christian for 17 years and went to Church EVERY week (obviously by name only, but now I have withdrawn form Christianity). In Catholicism the Ten commandments are very relevant. I was brought up with it. I heard them in Church, I was taught them in a Catholic school. They are extremely relevant, I don't know what you are talking about. Even though they were taught in the Old Testament, Christianity still does recognise it. Jesus was recognised as the new covenant that overwrote the Jewish dietry\circumcision laws. The old laws of Moses ie. 10 commandments, were still kept and are still alive today, and that's why I, and everybody else was taught them under Christian power. (This may only be in my country, I could be wrong, please correct me if I am).
Please read my posts before commenting people, not just the first one! I can't be bothered explaining things I have already explained, for instance, this guy said I have no interest in Christianity. I made it quite clear that I was very interested in all religions, especially Christianity! Just because I don't believe what they teach, it doesn't mean I don't admire their orginality and creativity.
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:11 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan
I dont like this thread

The presentation is very poor to the point of being offensive... sorry aussieU2fan

But i understand the point you are trying to make but I disagree..
its difficult to find a Christian fanatic.. Having lived in UK and Italy for more than 1.5 years , I couldnt find any

Christians in general are very liberal, open minded & rational.

I am using the word "in general"..
Perhaps you can find no Christian fanatics in the UK or Italy, but there are PLENTY of them here, in fact there's even a whole family (and a big one at that) just a couple of houses down from me. No liberalism, open-mindedness, or rationality there at all.

And a question....the whole thread offends you, or do just the first few posts by AussieU2fanman offend you? It was explained that the first post was poorly worded and the rhetoric was toned down in subsequent posts.
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:20 AM   #63
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Oh yeah, the Ten Commandments are big here too. Lots of people throwing hissy fits when the courts ruled that huge gravestone marker things with them engraved had to be removed from right in front of some public schools in the area. And before they were removed, there was a big thing over whether these were the Catholic 10 C's or the Protestant 10 C's. So, yeah, they're a biggie here.
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:21 AM   #64
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Re: Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

Quote:
Originally posted by StlElevation


everybody is born with original sin, or just sin in general, because we are not God and therefore are imperfect. but yes, anything you dont believe in is bullshit apparently.

i guess i also must be pretty slow since i believe in a heaven and a hell.

there are records of a jesus of nazareth existing, so, apparently, he did exist, unlike as specified in your first sentence.

ever hear the story of our lady of guadalupe? or the shroud of turin? proof enough (didnt need the proof anyway, i'd believe without) for me.

if there is no God, how are you here? how did we all come to exist? we just were? earth was just here? we happened to evolve? right.

it must be a pretty depressing way to live life believing that there is no god and nothing after you die. i know i'd sure hate to believe that.

ps yes i realize this post is all over the map, but so was the original one.
Lol the shroud of turin?! That was proven to be fake a long time ago! But I guess the Christians didn't want anyone to know, I had to find out for myself. Not many people will know its completely fake becuase the Christians obviously want to keep this under rug. Once again, this is another little thing that I dislike about Christianity. The deceit! I can't stand it! This shroud was needed as proof so that we all know Jesus Christ did exist and would follow his way of life. Pure lies, and science prooves it. Thankyou carbon 14 dating! SCIENCE CAN'T LIE unlike some other things. People, I don't admire lies and deceit in a religion. If you know that this little stunt by the Church is a lie, imagine what else they have done? (and don't reply saying that 'you say you know everything' etc. I claim to know very little. But what I do know is enough to convince me that this religion is purely fabricated). And the shroud came from the Renaissance period I believe to help the spread of Christianity around the globe. I am not to sure, but I can tell you, it wasn't your messiahs face on there!
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:24 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


Perhaps you can find no Christian fanatics in the UK or Italy, but there are PLENTY of them here, in fact there's even a whole family (and a big one at that) just a couple of houses down from me. No liberalism, open-mindedness, or rationality there at all.

And a question....the whole thread offends you, or do just the first few posts by AussieU2fanman offend you? It was explained that the first post was poorly worded and the rhetoric was toned down in subsequent posts.
I agree that my first post was quite misleading, and people continue to reply based on this narrow perspective. I gave the wrong impression with my first post, I just needed to get it out and quickly.
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:34 AM   #66
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

Quote:
Originally posted by AussieU2fanman
Not many people will know its completely fake becuase the Christians obviously want to keep this under rug.
Many people know its a fake. It was all over the news at the time. Its all over the internet if you google it.


Quote:
Originally posted by AussieU2fanman

I do know quite alot about Christianity. After all, I have been a Christian for 17 years and went to Church EVERY week (obviously by name only, but now I have withdrawn form Christianity).
So you are an embittered Ex Catholic then. lol. Your posts certainly read that way as I hinted earlier.

Thats okay but what you appear to be doing is throwing out your religion and replacing it with another godless scientiific one.

peace
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:40 AM   #67
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Didn't see all the other posts about the shroud of turin. Sorry. It's still quite a magnificent piece of work from Leonardo da Vinci. Here's a link if you would like to know how it came about, it's quite interesting. http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/110_shroud.shtml
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:47 AM   #68
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Re: Re: Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

Quote:
Originally posted by AussieU2fanman


Lol the shroud of turin?! That was proven to be fake a long time ago! But I guess the Christians didn't want anyone to know, I had to find out for myself. Not many people will know its completely fake becuase the Christians obviously want to keep this under rug. Once again, this is another little thing that I dislike about Christianity. The deceit! I can't stand it! This shroud was needed as proof so that we all know Jesus Christ did exist and would follow his way of life. Pure lies, and science prooves it. Thankyou carbon 14 dating! SCIENCE CAN'T LIE unlike some other things. People, I don't admire lies and deceit in a religion. If you know that this little stunt by the Church is a lie, imagine what else they have done? (and don't reply saying that 'you say you know everything' etc. I claim to know very little. But what I do know is enough to convince me that this religion is purely fabricated). And the shroud came from the Renaissance period I believe to help the spread of Christianity around the globe. I am not to sure, but I can tell you, it wasn't your messiahs face on there!
Ugh...the Christians?? Which ones? Like I said, a straw man.

The shroud is not necessary to prove that Jesus existed. There are enough historical texts to give us that. Historians that study Christianity generally agree that Christ did exist, however they debate what were in fact his words and later additions to the gospels.

Science is hardly a benign force in this world. There is good science and bad science, and it can be made, tailored or presented in a way to suit whoever is funding the research.
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:51 AM   #69
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Lets be clear here, science is objective. You cannot make radiocarbon dating any different because of what you believe.
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:56 AM   #70
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Re: Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

Quote:
Originally posted by StlElevation


everybody is born with original sin, or just sin in general, because we are not God and therefore are imperfect. but yes, anything you dont believe in is bullshit apparently.

i guess i also must be pretty slow since i believe in a heaven and a hell.

there are records of a jesus of nazareth existing, so, apparently, he did exist, unlike as specified in your first sentence.

ever hear the story of our lady of guadalupe? or the shroud of turin? proof enough (didnt need the proof anyway, i'd believe without) for me.

if there is no God, how are you here? how did we all come to exist? we just were? earth was just here? we happened to evolve? right.

it must be a pretty depressing way to live life believing that there is no god and nothing after you die. i know i'd sure hate to believe that.

ps yes i realize this post is all over the map, but so was the original one.
Sorry I didn't notice the other flaws in your statement. I never said everything I don't believe in is bullshit, I may have mentioned the word bullshit, but some MAJOR context removal has been used there! I love to hear what other people think, which is the point in this thread.
You said that you can believe something without any proof? That is an absolutely unbelievable leap of faith. You here these stories about Jesus etc. you see the shroud and you automatically believe?! It seems as though you are freightened to disagree with what you are told. You need this illusionary effect of God for security and guidance, while he actually comes from your mind, and sociological mouldings. If you reject this fantasy, you are left in absence of a love and security created in your own mind.
This is all my opinion, don't write back calling me a fukwit because I 'know it all.'
By the way, not believing in a God is most definately not depressing! It's liberating. People similar to myself can look to ourselves for guidance, not requiring a superior governor (A God).
We draw happiness from ourselves and other people, it's liberating and hardly depressing.
And in relation to original sin, the fact that a child can be born with sin is absolute crap in my opinion. If an unbaptized one year old dies, he must spend for what must seem like eternity in pergatory. But if he was baptized, he would go straight to heaven. This seems VERY contradictory to what the Church teaches. 'Bad luck? You died at the wrong time?!' It seems more like a MARKETING PLOY to secure members into the Church. (Is original sin still taught now? I sure as hell hope not as this is rediculous. If I am missing something please tell me.)
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Old 09-17-2004, 01:02 AM   #71
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Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

Quote:
Originally posted by beli

So you are an embittered Ex Catholic then. lol. Your posts certainly read that way as I hinted earlier.

Thats okay but what you appear to be doing is throwing out your religion and replacing it with another godless scientiific one.

peace
I notice that too! It's almost as though people are so angry at being duped (well, what they see as being duped, OK people?), that they make the exact opposite their "religion."

I don't have very standard beliefs, but I also figure there is more out there than I'll ever know.

PS When I read the first post in this thread, the very first thing I did is check the profile to see how old AussieU2fanman is! I just knew he was a pup!! (ok, ok, the my parents make me line did give me a clue too...). No offense meant, dear, it was just funny to me.
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Old 09-17-2004, 01:24 AM   #72
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Okay this is what I have to say to all you Christians

Quote:
Originally posted by iacrobat


Ugh...the Christians?? Which ones? Like I said, a straw man.

The shroud is not necessary to prove that Jesus existed. There are enough historical texts to give us that. Historians that study Christianity generally agree that Christ did exist, however they debate what were in fact his words and later additions to the gospels.

Science is hardly a benign force in this world. There is good science and bad science, and it can be made, tailored or presented in a way to suit whoever is funding the research.
Who claimed it was Jesus's shroud? The Christians. They lied, pure and simple. And if it wasn't it used to prove Jesus existed, why did they make it up then? They may have never actually ran around the streets waving this piece of cloth and yelling 'IT'S JESUS!!' But the effect is so damn obvious and intended it's not funny. Hey, when I saw this shroud, I was like, wow, this Jesus dude was real huh? Comeon, what else was it for? The historical texts are not enough to convince people that Jesus supposedly existed, they needed hard proof. Recruitment tool for some reason I believe, I do not know a lot about the renaisance period, including the spelling.

'P.S If you ask me, I would take the side of science anytime. 'it can be made, tailored or presented in a way to suit whoever is funding the research.' Huh? How could science favor someone who funds the research when it must be accepted by everyone? People who come up with fucked up theories aren't recognised obviously, becuase people must actually accept them in order for these theories to be sucessful. Science would be a much more reliable system than whatever they claim in the Christian faith in my opinion. And yes it must be pretty damn accurate. Man on moon? Television? Communication? etc etc.
Seeing and touching isn't believeing enough? But word of mouth and a couple of books is? Hmmmm......
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Old 09-17-2004, 02:09 AM   #73
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Aussie, it appears as though you have suffered an epiphany recently.

Although I agree with the gist of your religion/scientific arguments you are coming across as someone who has been hard done by the church. And perhaps you have, and that is a valid emotion you are feeling.

I know only too well how spiteful and arrogant Christians can be (not in this thread) to Athiests but thats no reason for you to do the same. Kindness is the key.

PS If you are ever in Perth, phone me and I will meet you at The Paddington Alehouse.

peace
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Old 09-17-2004, 02:24 AM   #74
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I have not been hard done by the Church in the past, believe me it's nothing like that. I'm not spiting anyone\anything, I'm just disagreeing passionately!
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Old 09-17-2004, 02:28 AM   #75
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Originally posted by AussieU2fanman
I have not been hard done by the Church in the past, believe me it's nothing like that.
Really? You have made a few references to the church lieing.
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