Oh My God...McCain could win if he picks Palin!!!

[Utoo]

he has also picked someone who will attract ..... AND moderate feminist liberals

If by "moderate" you mean feminist liberals who may be open to pro-life, the NRA, drilling in wildlife reserves, or Creationism (if indeed there are "feminist liberals" who would really go for any of that), I still think that any attraction will be far too weak.

The vast majority of women I've spoken with or have read comments from are still offended at the choice, believing that one of McCain's primary goals in Palin was to attract Hillary voters as if they'd only care that she is a woman. Now, these women may in time come to respect a few of Palin's positions. But I think that any group that we are going to label as feminist and liberal is going to feel the sting of the offense much longer and stronger than any respect for off-shore or refuge drilling. Generalizing, of course.

 

[deep]

When you beat a bad man to death it's not as bad...

Why is there an investigation? You could have saved a lot of time, Deep just solved it all for you.

what bad man got beat to death?
it seems, we had a bad cop, with a badge, a gun, and a taser



some things I don't know much about

some things I do know a little something about


why? because the fired guy

made an allegation

he has nothing to lose


I have three friends that serve on a Civil Service Board

I know how the process works

I have one friend that has a law practice in this specialty.



also, I am pretty certain this was thoroughly vetted
this has been out there for weeks
and if there was anything that would stick

she would have been chosen.

 

[Irvine511]

and in case anyone is keeping score,

the Palin-is-the-grandmother rumors are only growing louder.

does it strike any women in here as odd that she'd jump on an airplane after going into labor?

does this matter?

on one hand, i'd say no. i am happy that baby was born to a loving family.

but when the birth of this baby has become the central rationale for her selection as VP -- her appeal to the anti-choice crowd -- and it's possible that this central narrative, which would be noble either way, might be a fabrication ... it begs the question of why the truth may not have been enough.

 

[deep]

and in case anyone is keeping score,

the Palin-is-the-grandmother rumors are only growing louder.

.

if it is true

I think it is a problem

 

[financeguy]

and in case anyone is keeping score,

the Palin-is-the-grandmother rumors are only growing louder.

does it strike any women in here as odd that she'd jump on an airplane after going into labor?

does this matter?

on one hand, i'd say no. i am happy that baby was born to a loving family.

but when the birth of this baby has become the central rationale for her selection as VP -- her appeal to the anti-choice crowd -- and it's possible that this central narrative, which would be noble either way, might be a fabrication ... it begs the question of why the truth may not have been enough.

Does it strike you that this is precisely the kind of personalised crapology that you liberals (quite justifiably) criticize right wingers for?

Do you really think you on the Democrat side can possibly avoid the charge of rampant hypocrisy, if you go down to their level, and lower?

 

[financeguy]

If by "moderate" you mean feminist liberals who may be open to pro-life, the NRA, drilling in wildlife reserves, or Creationism (if indeed there are "feminist liberals" who would really go for any of that), I still think that any attraction will be far too weak.

The vast majority of women I've spoken with or have read comments from are still offended at the choice, believing that one of McCain's primary goals in Palin was to attract Hillary voters as if they'd only care that she is a woman. Now, these women may in time come to respect a few of Palin's positions. But I think that any group that we are going to label as feminist and liberal is going to feel the sting of the offense much longer and stronger than any respect for off-shore or refuge drilling. Generalizing, of course.

Palin is not a liberal, I think that we would all agree on that.

Would you consider her a feminist?

 

[Irvine511]

Does it strike you that this is precisely the kind of personalised crapology that you liberals (quite justifiably) criticize right wingers for?

yes.

i've said i don't care. why? because i'm pro-choice. that means whether the mother is the daughter or Palin, i'm happy the baby was born to people that wanted it and will love it.

what concerns me is not the story, but how the story is used as evidence that she is an anti-choice champion.

it's not the story, it's the manipulation of it for political gain that bothers me.

Do you really think you on the Democrat side can possibly avoid the charge of rampant hypocrisy, if you go down to their level, and lower?

read my distinctions above.

 

[Harry Vest]

To all you skeptics that really don't see the brilliance of this pick...

Palin electrifies conservative base - Jonathan Martin - Politico.com

 

[financeguy]

you also don't see many of us walking around making pronouncements about Irish politics.

yet, the continent seems to think it knows what's best for us.

Odd. Some would call it racism.

No, sorry, I forgot.

Only conservatives are racists, right?

 

[Irvine511]

if it is true

I think it is a problem

i wish it weren't a problem. i admire the Palins.

but the pandering to the anti-choice base

is what is the real problem.

 

[Irvine511]

Odd. Some would call it racism.

No, sorry, I forgot.

Only conservatives are racists, right?

are you actually reading anything i post?

 

[financeguy]

i wish it weren't a problem. i admire the Palins.

but the pandering to the anti-choice base

is what is the real problem.

It isn't pandering. It's what they believe. Why can't you accept that?

 

[Irvine511]

It isn't pandering. It's what they believe. Why can't you accept that?

ok, it's clear you are misreading.

the PANDERING to the base is the picking of an unprepared candidate because she is anti-choice, and because she has a PERSONAL NARRATIVE that exemplifies what the anti-choice movement would like to believe about itself.

thus, McCain picked Palin over Lieberman and Ridge and, for that matter, Kay Bailey Hutchinson or Olympia Snow or Jody Rell, because Palin's PERSONAL NARRATIVE is so compelling to the anti-choice Republican base.

hence, the PANDERING.

 

[financeguy]

ok, it's clear you are misreading.

the PANDERING to the base is the picking of an unprepared candidate because she is anti-choice, and because she has a PERSONAL NARRATIVE that exemplifies what the anti-choice movement would like to believe about itself.

thus, McCain picked Palin over Lieberman and Ridge and, for that matter, Kay Bailey Hutchinson or Olympia Snow or Jody Rell, because Palin's PERSONAL NARRATIVE is so compelling to the anti-choice Republican base.

hence, the PANDERING.

I see what you mean now.

 

[Irvine511]

 

[Dreadsox]

And sooooooo what! The only thing I find aggravating is the pandering to PUMA's.

Biden was picked for a reason, she was picked for a reason too....

What the hell, Kennedy picked Johnson for a reason and he f'ing hated Johnson.

Why does it matter? People are going to weigh the tickets, and decide.

 

[Utoo]

Palin is not a liberal, I think that we would all agree on that.

Would you consider her a feminist?

Possibly, though I don't know enough of what she believes about women and women's roles to say. Given her speech thanking Ferraro & Clinton, it would seem that she is, on a superficial level at the least. Or it would seem that she knows how to play a part/read a script designed for a target audience. That aside, whether she's a feminist or not, do you think that a feminist would be struck more by the offense of McCain's superficial, cheap reasoning, or whatever feminist tendencies Palin has? Again, not being able to speak properly on the subject as I'm not in the position, I'd still say that the sting from the former will last at least half the time from now until the election. Add to that the flippant way in which Palin uses Clinton's achievement for her own political currency, her refusal to fight for equal pay (though I admit I haven't personally verified this), and her staunch pro-life stance, and I'll generalize that a majority of "feminist liberals" will have at least one negative to add to that sting and make a case for her or her image even less impressive. Throw in some more publicizing of the McCain "wife's a cunt" fiasco, and I think the case is thrown out for the whole ticket.

Again, without knowing her full portfolio, I don't see what feminist ideals Palin brings to the table, aside from the potential of the first woman VP......which brings us back to women voting for her simply because she's a woman.

and in case anyone is keeping score,

the Palin-is-the-grandmother rumors are only growing louder.

does it strike any women in here as odd that she'd jump on an airplane after going into labor?

It does indeed strike me as very odd. But I'll grant her taking that stupid risk for a speech that was very important to her.

What I'm more curious about is whether Bristol really missed 4-5 months of school leading up to the birth. There's not a soul on earth who misses 4-5 months for Mono.

 

[Dreadsox]

The hypocrasy around this forum stinks to high heaven.

 

[anitram]

I don't care about this baby story but then I also didn't care about the John Edwards story when people were outraged about a lack of reporting. It just doesn't particularly interest me.

I'm sure the Enquirer people are all over it, seems to be right up their alley. If there is something there, it will come out. And I still won't be enthralled by it. There are lots of things I dislike about this woman, the illicit-maybe-baby just isn't really one of them.

 

[Irvine511]

I don't care about this baby story but then I also didn't care about the John Edwards story when people were outraged about a lack of reporting. It just doesn't particularly interest me.

I'm sure the Enquirer people are all over it, seems to be right up their alley. If there is something there, it will come out. And I still won't be enthralled by it. There are lots of things I dislike about this woman, the illicit-maybe-baby just isn't really one of them.

it's not the baby.

it's how the campaign has manipulated that baby.

 

[Irvine511]

The hypocrasy around this forum stinks to high heaven.

it's not the baby.

it's how the campaign is using the baby.

 

[anitram]

it's not the baby.

it's how the campaign has manipulated that baby.

I agree IF this is true.

If it isn't, it makes people sound loony.

Like I said, if there are legs to this, somebody will dig it up, and the shit will hit the fan about her dishonesty, nevermind the illegality of it all - who claimed the kid on the tax return, who falsified medical records and on and on.

But until then, it sounds like tinfoil hat territory.

 

[Utoo]

The hypocrasy around this forum stinks to high heaven.

http://forum.interference.com/showpost.php?p=5415189&postcount=798


So does the ability to post the same idea in two threads at the same time.

 

[Dreadsox]

it's not the baby.

it's how the campaign is using the baby.

I find this so offensive....

The campaign is using the baby? How?

 

[Irvine511]

I find this so offensive....

The campaign is using the baby? How?

the campaign is using the baby to present Palin as *authentically* pro-life, as someone who walks the talk (as opposed to McCain, who has always had trouble with the Christianist base)

she had a baby that would likely be DS. and she carried it to term.

this was mentioned about her right off the bat. this was how she was rolled out to the base. this is why she brought in $7m for McCain in 24 hours.

it's a part of her narrative.

it could be argued that Obama's kids are part of his central narrative as a black father who's obviously stuck around.

and it could also be aruged that Palin *is* authentic, and that the enthusiasm for her amongst the anti-choice base, based on her and Trig, is entirely deserved.

but no one can deny that perhaps the central reason she was picked was to help McCain shore up his "base" -- the part of the Republican Party he's always had trouble with.

 

[Dreadsox]

http://forum.interference.com/showpost.php?p=5415189&postcount=798


So does the ability to post the same idea in two threads at the same time.

Oh surprise...more personal shit coming from you...

 

[Dreadsox]

the campaign is using the baby to present Palin as *authentically* pro-life, as someone who walks the talk (as opposed to McCain, who has always had trouble with the Christianist base)

she had a baby that would likely be DS. and she carried it to term.

this was mentioned about her right off the bat. this was how she was rolled out to the base. this is why she brought in $7m for McCain in 24 hours.

it's a part of her narrative.

it could be argued that Obama's kids are part of his central narrative as a black father who's obviously stuck around.

and it could also be aruged that Palin *is* authentic, and that the enthusiasm for her amongst the anti-choice base, based on her and Trig, is entirely deserved.

but no one can deny that perhaps the central reason she was picked was to help McCain shore up his "base" -- the part of the Republican Party he's always had trouble with.

And the DS child is being used? Give me a break...and we wonder how Bush got elected. I actually think McCain has so worked the left over with this pick they are going to blow it with these issues.

So, Basically, McCain has made this DS child an issue and is using this child, who the left bloggers are saying is not actually hers, and he has brought this on himself?

I know officially believe McCain is going to win this. You have convinced me.

 

[Irvine511]

And the DS child is being used? Give me a break...and we wonder how Bush got elected.

no, i think this is how Bush was elected. he was seen as *authentically* one of the evangelicals, he could speak their language, he was a believer. thus, they turned out in droves and he eeked out two wins.

it's more important to be a believer than to be serious, in the minds of millions of Americans, evidently.

I actually think McCain has so worked the left over with this pick they are going to blow it with these issues.

i agree, the Democrats will have to tread very carefully. Obama and Biden certainly did yesterday.

So, Basically, McCain has made this DS child an issue and is using this child, who the left bloggers are saying is not actually hers, and he has brought this on himself?

yes.

I know officially believe McCain is going to win this. You have convinced me.

then we're screwed.

 

[Dreadsox]

Obama and Biden deserve all the credit in the world. They are actually sticking to issues. If only their supporters would do the same.

 

[Irvine511]

Obama and Biden deserve all the credit in the world. They are actually sticking to issues. If only their supporters would do the same.

i agree on this.

i did struggle with mentioning the mother/grandmother story.

but i figured, why not? it's going to come up over the next few days, so why not?

perhaps i shouldn't have.

but i stand by every single statement about what i've said about what the selection of Palin says about McCain and his campaign.

i know who i want to have making big decisions.